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Balian of Ibelin


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#1 Guest_laconejita_*

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 01:48 AM

So here we go again. If you know the basic story of Kingdom of Heaven, then you probably know the movie is based upon real events (well.sort of) and real people. Balian of Ibelin, Orlando's character, was a real person during the 12th Century A.D. and here's the place to learn more about him! I'm a research junkie, but if anyone has any information, please post it! (side note: I've been unable to find that speech that Balian delivered.if you have a copy, please post it here or PM me.thanks!!)

The defense of Jerusalem was organized by Balian of Ibelin. He had fought at Hattin and had escaped and gone to Tyre. But his wife and children were in Jerusalem. Balian asked for and received permission from Saladin to go to Jerusalem to fetch his family, on condition that he not remain there more than one night. Once he got to the city, though, the Patriarch and citizens begged him to stay. Balian wrote to Saladin to explain why he was breaking his agreement. Saladin, famous for his chivalry, not only forgave Balian, but provided Balian's family safe conduct back to Tyre.

The situation in Jerusalem was literally hopeless. There was a grand total of three knights in the entire city . . . counting Balian. For every adult male there were fifty women and children. Balian commandeered every bit of money he could find and armed every man, whether or not he knew how to fight. The Christians simply would not give up Jerusalem without a fight. They could always hope for a miracle--Crusader legends were filled with them.

Saladin arrived on September 20th. He spent a few days trying to decide where best to attack the city, for the great walls were now Jerusalem's best defense. The defenders fought well, but there was no reason to hope, unless the ground itself should swallow up the Muslim army, for there was no Christian army near or even far that could help. Only Saladin's reluctance to storm the city and initiate a massacre saved the defenders. On the 30th, Balian went out to negotiate.

Even as the battle proceeded, the two men talked. Balian was at least able to arrange terms, which were quite generous, given the situation. The city was to surrender unconditionally, but the Christians were allowed to buy their freedom: ten dinars for a man, five for a woman, one for a child. Seven thousand of the poor would be freed for a lump sum of thirty thousand dinars. Balian agreed.

The fighting stopped on October 1st; Saladin entered the city the next day.

http://crusades.bois...Outremer/32.htm



#2 CatsbyCat

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 02:00 PM

Brilliant! Thanks laconejita - I've been wanting to find out a little more about the history and characters behind the movie so this is great. Please keep the info coming!

Orlando as a knight - can't wait! :crusader:

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 06:03 PM

I'm so happy! I found the speech! Yay! This is one brilliant speech and I'm almost tempted to find any way possible to get this to Ridley Scott in case it's not in the script. To hear Orlando as Balian giving it.:censor: Mind you, it's the Crusades so it's not a nice speech, but there are accounts that Saladin (the Muslim leader) and Balian (the Christian leader in Jerusalem) had an almost friendship. I guess a deep level of respect is probably a better way to put it.

The site the speech is on has more detailed information of the fall of Jerusalem

The conquest of  the holy city of Jerusalem was the inevitable sequel to the extermination of the Christian army at Hattin. The restoration of this most holy site, and particularly the recapture of the Dome of the Rock, was the immediate goal of the victorious forces of Islam.

Nothing stood between Saladin at Hattin and total victory with the seizure of Jerusalem,  except one knight.Balian of Ibelin had escaped death at Hattin. He had fled in the company of Raymond of Tripoli. Now he begged Saladin's permission to go to Jerusalem to rescue his wife Queen Maria Comnena  and their children. The Sultan granted this, on condition that Balian would no longer bear arms against him.

Once in the city, however, Balian was begged to succour his fellow Christians.
A man of honour, he asked for Saladin's advice: Saladin in turn relieved him of his obligation. And as Balian was busy arranging the defences, Saladin organized an escort for the wife  of the new commander of the Christian army  to return  safely to Tyre.1
Supported by a handful of knights and sixty freshly knighted burghers, Balian led a hopeless resistance.

Amongst the civilians who took up arms to assist the defence was at least one woman. Her name was Margaret of Beverley, who had  been born while her parents were on pilgrimage to the Holy  Land. Once she had reached adulthood she had retraced her parents' footsteps to the East and was caught up in the siege. In her own words, she defended the city like a man, wearing a cooking pot as a helmet, and carrying water to the men. A missile boulder wounded her with fragments. But she survived to tell her tale and to establish herself as a remarkable woman warrior.

Saladin's army drew up outside the walls of Jerusalem on September 20.
Nine days later, it was all over. Balian's miniature army had fought with the dogged desperation of those who were beyond hope. But the Saracens outnumbered them, and had tunnelled beneath the ramparts. The fall of Jerusalem was imminent, and with that knowledge must have come the memories of what had happened the last time its defences had been breached. For the non combatants - the women and children - the worst was surely yet to come.

Balian distinguished himself with his coolness and ferocity at the last throw of the dice. He led a deputation to Saladin begging quarter: Saladin replied only that he would return evil for evil. Balian begged, humbling and degrading himself before the inflexible Sultan, who had not wished to attack the Holy City, but now that it was done, intended to fire out its population to the last man and woman.

Balian then made one of the most inspired speeches in military history. It was recorded by Saladin's historian, Ibn al Athir:

Know then, O Sultan, that we are infinite in number and that God alone can guess what our number is.
The inhabitants are reluctant to fight, because they hope for quarter, such as you have granted to so many others. They fear death and cling to life; but once death becomes inevitable, I swear by the God who hears us, we shall kill our women and our children, we shall burn our riches and we shall not leave you a single coin.
You will find no more women to reduce to slavery, or men to put in irons.
We shall destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque al Aqsa and all the holy places.
We shall slaughter all the Moslems, to the number of five thousand, imprisoned in our walls.
We shall not leave a single beast of burden alive.
We shall come out against you, and we shall fight like people fighting for their lives.
For one of us who perishes, many of yours will fall.

We shall die free, or we shall triumph with glory.


http://www.geocities...41/page100.html



#4 Cayenne

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 06:45 PM

Thank you, Laconejita :notworthy:
I pray that the writers included this speech in the film. Balian was so brave in the face of inevitable defeat. To hear Orlando deliver the speech will cause every female, and most males, in the theater to swoon.

#5 Adrianne

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 12:56 AM

I am undone. If 'Troy' and Orlando as Paris does not wound my heart beyond recovery, than 'Kingdom of Heaven' with Orlando as Balian of Ibelin will certainly accomplish the task. While I would love to see Orlando play a character with little in the way of redeeming qualities, I adore Orlando as the noble hero. And obviously that is what he will be in this movie. To hear him make that impassioned speech to his enemy, a man who apparently has respect for Balian, would just send chills through me, chills of the best kind. I cannot wait to see him play the man willing to lay down his life rather than submit to captivity. Is it next year yet?
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#6 ViperGurl345

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 03:30 AM

I am undone. If 'Troy' and Orlando as Paris does not wound my heart beyond recovery, than 'Kingdom of Heaven' with Orlando as Balian of Ibelin will certainly accomplish the task. While I would love to see Orlando play a character with little in the way of redeeming qualities, I adore Orlando as the noble hero. And obviously that is what he will be in this movie. To hear him make that impassioned speech to his enemy, a man who apparently has respect for Balian, would just send chills through me, chills of the best kind. I cannot wait to see him play the man willing to lay down his life rather than submit to captivity. Is it next year yet?

It's official. We need a Waiting for Balian Support Thread! :wub: We have a Waiting for Paris and Jimmy Support Thread. Why not Balian?

Is it next year yet?!


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#7 IRDbabe

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 05:51 AM

Here is some information I nicked from kB a while back, in an effort to learn more about the crusades, and the KoH subject matter in particular. I'm sorry that I don't have on hand the origins for all of this material. A few paragraphs are the same as what you've posted, laconejita, but I won't break it up since the flow is pretty good. It's the super-long extended dance version, though, so grab some snacks and settle in.

To wit:

The conquest of the holy city of Jerusalem was the inevitable sequel to the extermination of the Christian army at Hattin. The restoration of this most holy site, and particularly the recapture of the Dome of the Rock, was the immediate goal of the victorious forces of Islam.

Nothing stood between Saladin at Hattin and total victory with the seizure of Jerusalem, except one knight.

Balian of Ibelin had escaped death at Hattin. He had fled in the company of Raymond of Tripoli. Now he begged Saladin's permission to go to Jerusalem to rescue his wife Queen Maria Comnena and their children. The Sultan granted this, on condition that Balian would no longer bear arms against him.
Once in the city, however, Balian was begged to succour his fellow Christians.

A man of honour, he asked for Saladin's advice: Saladin in turn relieved him of his obligation. And as Balian was busy arranging the defences, Saladin organized an escort for the wife of the new commander of the Christian army to return safely to Tyre.

Supported by a handful of knights and sixty freshly knighted burghers, Balian led a hopeless resistance.

Amongst the civilians who took up arms to assist the defence was at least one woman. Her name was Margaret of Beverley, who had been born while her parents were on pilgrimage to the Holy Land. Once she had reached adulthood she had retraced her parents' footsteps to the East and was caught up in the siege.

In her own words, she defended the city like a man, wearing a cooking pot as a helmet, and carrying water to the men. A missile boulder wounded her with fragments. But she survived to tell her tale and to establish herself as a remarkable woman warrior.

Saladin's army drew up outside the walls of Jerusalem on September 20. Nine days later, it was all over.

Balian's miniature army had fought with the dogged desperation of those who were beyond hope. But the Saracens outnumbered them, and had tunnelled beneath the ramparts. The fall of Jerusalem was imminent, and with that knowledge must have come the memories of what had happened the last time its defences had been breached. For the non combatants - the women and children - the worst was surely yet to come.

Balian distinguished himself with his coolness and ferocity at the last throw of the dice.

He led a deputation to Saladin begging quarter: Saladin replied only that he would return evil for evil.
Balian begged, humbling and degrading himself before the inflexible Sultan, who had not wished to attack the Holy City, but now that it was done, intended to fire out its population to the last man and woman.

Balian then made one of the most inspired speeches in military history. It was recorded by Saladin's historian, Ibn al Athir:

Know then, O Sultan, that we are infinite in number and that God alone can guess what our number is.
The inhabitants are reluctant to fight, because they hope for quarter, such as you have granted to so many others. They fear death and cling to life; but once death becomes inevitable, I swear by the God who hears us, we shall kill our women and our children, we shall burn our riches and we shall not leave you a single coin.
You will find no more women to reduce to slavery, or men to put in irons.
We shall destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque al Aqsa and all the holy places.
We shall slaughter all the Moslems, to the number of five thousand, imprisoned in our walls.
We shall not leave a single beast of burden alive.
We shall come out against you, and we shall fight like people fighting for their lives.
For one of us who perishes, many of yours will fall.
We shall die free, or we shall triumph with glory.


Saladin was convinced, or at least was eager to take a path that saved both bloodshed and honour. His conditions were severe but remarkably favourable to the Christians.

The Sultan demanded ten gold dinars for each man, the same per two women, and the same amount for every ten children. Some could pay, many were unable to do so. At last, Saladin accepted a down payment of 30,000 dinars from Balian for the seven to eighteen thousand poor people of Jerusalem.

The entry to the Holy City took place on October 2, 1187, the anniversary of the very day on which Mohammed was thought to have been transported from Mecca to Jerusalem and thence to Paradise.

Alas, the occasion of religious fervour turned into a veritable meat market, as the haggling began over the payment of ransoms for the better off. The leaders became embarassed at the sight of the thousands of families patiently queuing to pay their ransoms, and so some of the sheiks and Balian began to pay for hundreds at a time, from their own purses. Even the venial Patriarch grudgingly agreed to buy off 700. This proved merely a distraction to his main aim: he fled the city soon afterwards with cart loads of jewellery and other treasure. According to Ibn al Athir, he took with him the treasures of the Dome of the Rock, the Mosque al Aqsa, the Church of the Resurrection, plus an equal quantity of money.

Saladin was asked by his sheikhs to intervene and relieve the despicable prelate of his burden, but the Sultan declined, confining his tax to the agreed ten dinar.4 Alas, the insults of Islam were too often wasted on the sensibilities of the Christians.

Saladin then freed the remainder of the poor, and restored the captive knights of Hattin to their wives. To the widows he paid a lump sum for the loss of their husbands in battle.

============================================

The Arabic accounts give us general information about Salah al- Din's attack on Jerusalem, but they fail to identify the exact locations of some of his battles and other important information about the Latins in the city, as well as about Salah al-Din's contacts with the Arab-Christian community in Jerusalem. In order to complete this picture we will utilize the chronicle of Ernoul (Chroniquc d'Er- noul). Ernoul (d. A.D. 1230) was the squire of Balian of Ibelin, the Latin leader who negotiated the surrender of Jerusalem to Salah al- Din. He was an eyewitness to the battle of Jerusalem and provides insight into what was happening within the walled city,.

Jerusalem, the capital of the Latin kingdom, had suffered a great loss of manpower as a result of Hittin. Among those captured or killed were the king, Gui of Lusignan; his counsellors; his brother Amaury, the constable of the kingdom; the grand masters of the Templars and the Hospitallers, and a large number of the knights of these two military orders. The only surviving leaders, who fled the battle to safety through Muslim lines, were Raymond of Tripoli, Reynold of Sidon, and Balian of Ibelin (referred to in Arabic sources as Balian Ibn Barzan). These men had enjoyed friendly relations with Salah al-Din and were suspected by the Latins of complicity with him. Of the three, the most important for our discussion is Balian.

Ernoul indicates that a delegation of citizens from Jerusalem went to see Salah al-Din on the day he took 'Asqalan (Jumada al-Thani, A.H. 583/September, A.D. 1187) to ask for a peaceful solution for Jerusalem. On the day of the meeting there was an eclipse of the sun, which the Latin delegates considered to be a bad omen. Never- theless, Salah al-Din offered them generous terms for the city: They were to be allowed to remain in the city temporarily, they were to retain the land within a radius of five leagues around it, and they were to receive the supplies they needed from Salah al-Din. The settlement was to remain valid until Pentecost. If the citizens of Jerusalem could obtain external help, they would remain rulers of the city; if not, they were to surrender it and remove themselves to Christian lands.

According to Ernoul, the delegation rejected this offer, saying they would never give up the city in which "the Lord died for them." Salah al-Din then vowed to take Jerusalem by force and started his march against the city.

It seems most probable that there was more than one contact between Salah al-Din and the authorities in Jerusalem, the first being in Tyre. 'Imad al-Din informs us that while at Tyre Salah al-Din summoned King Gui and the grand master of the Templars and promised both of them freedom if they helped him secure the surrender of other cities. These two did in fact later help him to secure the surrender of 'Asqalan and Gaza. Salah al-Din may at the same time also have contacted Balian of Ibelin, who was already in Tyre, and asked him to secure the surrender of Jerusalem. Ernoul mentions that while Salah al-Din was in Tyre, Balian sought his permission to go to Jerusalem in order to rescue his wife, Maria Comnena, as well as other members of his family and their possessions. Salah al-Din granted him permission to go to Jerusalem on the condition that he not bear weapons against him and that he spend only one night there.

In so doing, Salah al-Din must have hoped to use Balian as his chief negotiator for the surrender of Jerusalem. Balian ultimately did negotiate the surrender of the city, but only after he had broken his agreement with Salah al-Din and played a dramatic role in its defence.

After arriving in Jerusalem, Balian was pressed by the patriarch to remain there and to mobilize the population for its defence. At first Balian resisted, insisting that he would adhere 10 his commitment to Salah al-Din. But at the insistence ol the patriarch, who absolved him of his oath, Balian finally consented to accept the leadership of the city. His rank among the Latins was, according to Ibn al-Athir, analogous to that of a king.

Balian began immediately to consolidate the Latin forces and plan the defence of the city. According to Latin sources, he found only two knights in the city who had survived Hittin. Thus, to make up for the shortage of male fighters, he knighted fifty sons of the nobility. According to Runciman, he knighted every boy of noble origin who was over sixteen years of age; he also knighted sixty burgesses. Since money was scarce, Balian, with the blessing of the Patriarch Heraclius, stripped the silver from the roof of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and used it, along with some church funds and money that King Henry II of England had sent to the Hospitallers, to produce a currency. He then distributed arms to every able-bodied man in the city.

As the undisputed ruler of Jerusalem, Balian is most likely to have contacted Salah al-Din once again regarding Jerusalem at 'Asqa- lan. According to Latin sources, Balian wrote him at 'Asqalan to apologize for having broken his agreement and to ask his forgiveness, which Salah al-Din gave.2

No one knows the nature of the secret correspondence between the two leaders, but the terms that Ernoul alleges Salah al-Din to have proposed, regarding the fate of Jerusalem, seem doubtful. Salah al-Din was by then well aware that Jerusalem would not be able to hold out against him for long, especially since he had isolated it almost completely. Nor would he have allowed a situation to develop in Jerusalem such as that in Tyre, which had become the centre of resistance against his forces. Furthermore, even before the capture of 'Asqalan, Salah al-Din had written to the caliph and to other relatives announcing his intention to capture the city. In one letter he stated, "The march to Jerusalem will not be delayed, for this is precisely the right time to liberate it."

Ibn al-Athir's account of the battle is more detailed. According to him, on the night of 20 Rajab, A.H. 53/25 September, A.D. 1187 Salah al-Din installed his mangonels, and by morning his machinery was functional. The Latins also installed their mangonels on the wall and started to fire their catapults. Both sides fought bravely, each considering its struggle to bc in defence of its faith. The Latin cavalry left the city daily to engage in combat with Salah al-Din's forces, and both sustained casualties.

In one of these battles a Muslim commander, 'Izz al-Din 'Isa Ibn Malik, was martyred by the Latins. His death so grieved the Muslims that they charged the Latins vehemently, forcing them away from their positions and pushing them back into the walls of the city. The Muslims crossed the moat and reached the wall. Sappers prepared to destroy it while archers gave them cover, and mangonels continued bombarding the Latins to drive them away from the wall so the sappers could complete their work. When the wall had been breached, sappers filled it witll wood.

Realizing that they were on the verge of perishing, the Latin leaders met in council and agreed to surrender Jerusalem to Salah al-Din and to ask him for safe conduct. Accordingly, they sent a delegation of their leaders to speak with Salah al-Din, but he turned them away, saying that he would treat them the way their anccstors had treated the residents of Jerusalem in A.H. 492/A.D. 1099, by death and captivity. On the following day, Balian Ibn Barzan (Balian of Ibelin) left Jerusalem to discuss the future of the city and its population with Salah al-Din.

According to al-Qadi al-Fadil, the fire from the mangonels destroyed thc tops of the towers, "which were used to repel the attacks." When they collapsed, "the towers made such a noise that even the deafest among the enemy must have heard it." The defenders thus had to abandon their positions, giving the sappers a chance to accomplish their task. When the wall fell, Balian Ibn Barzan, the leader of the besieged, left the city and told Salah al-Din that Jerusalem should be taken by surrender rather than by force.

Ernoul informs us that, realizing they could not hold the city for very long, the authorities in Jerusalem held an emergency meeting, attended by the Patriarch Heraclius and Balian of Ibelin, at which they discussed their military options. The citizens' representatives and the sergeants advanced a proposal for a massive attack on Salah al-Din's forces, thus "dying honourably in defence of the city."

The patriarch rejected this proposal, however, arguing that if all the men died, the fate of the women and children in the city would be left in the hands of the Muslim forces, who would certainly convert them to Islam. He proposed instead that the city should be surrendered, and he promised that after surrendering it, the Latins would seek help from Europe. The authorities accordingly agreed, and hence dispatched Balian to discuss the terms of the surrender with Salah al-Din. According to Ernoul, Balian left the city to negotiate with Salah al-Din, and, while the talks were in progress, the Muslim forces succeeded in raising their flag on the main wall. Rejoicing, Salah al-Din turned to Balian and asked: "Why are you proposing to surrender the city? We have already captured it!" However, the Latins counter-attacked Salah al-Din's forces, driving them away from the section they had captured. Salah al-Din was so angered by this that he dismissed Balian and told him to return the following day.

When Balian returned to the city without an agreement, fear gripped the population. According to Ernoul, the citizens "crowded in the churches to pray and confess their sins, [they] beat themselves with stones and scourges, begging for God's mercy." The Latin women in the city placed tubs in front of Mount Calvary and filled them with cold water, then took their young daughters, stripped them naked, and placed them in the water up to their necks. They cut their hair and burned it in the hope of averting their shame. Meanwhile, the clergy walked in procession around the walls of the city chanting psalms and carrying the Syrian "true cross," which had been kept in the city after the "true cross" of the Latins had fallen into the hands of Salah al-Din's forces at the battle of Hittin. Ernoul reports that the entire population took part in the procession, except for the very old men, who locked themselves inside their homes.

When Balian appeared again before Salah al-Din, he asked for a general amnesty in return for the surrender of the city, but Salah al-Din rejected his request. Balian then threatened that the Latins inside the city would fight to the death: They would burn their houses, destroy the Dome of the Rock, uproot the Rock, and kill all Muslim prisoners, who were estimated to number in the thousands; they would destroy their property and kill their women and children. According to al-Qadi al-Fadil, Balian also "offered a tribute in an amount that even the most covetous could not have hoped for."

Salah al-Din met with his commanders and told them that this was an excellent opportunity to capture the city without further bloodshed. After lengthy negotiations, an agreement was reached between Salah al-Din and the Latins according to which they were granted safe conduct to leave the city, provided that each male paid a ransom of ten dinars, each female paid five dinars, and each child was ransomed for two dinars. All those who paid their ransom within forty days were allowed to leave the city, while those who could not ransom themselves were to be enslaved.

'Imad al-Din indicates that Balian offered to pay 30,000 dinars on behalf of the poor, an offer that was accepted, and the city was at last surrendered on Friday, 27 Rajab, A.H. 583/2 October, A.D. 1187. The twenty-seventh of Rajab was the anniversary of al-Mi'raj, through which Jerusalem had become a part of Islamic history and piety . When Salah al-Din entered Jerusalem triumphantly, he immediately released the Muslim prisoners, who, according to Ibn Shaddad, numbered close to 3,ooo. The newly released captives were later rewarded with the homes vacated by the Latins.

Meanwhile, the Latins started to prepare for their departure. They began to sell their property and possessions at very low prices to the merchants in Salah al-Din's army, as well as to native Christians. According to 'Imad al-Din, they stripped the ornaments from their churches, carrying with them vases of gold and silver and silk- and gold-embroidered curtains as well as church treasures. The Patriarch Heraclius collected and carried away gold plating, gold and silver jewelry, and other arteacts from the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

In order to control the departing population, Salah al-Din ordered that all the gates of Jerusalem be temporarily closed. At each gate a commander was appointed to control the movement of the Latins and to ensure that only those who had paid ransom could leave. Persons were employed inside the city to take a census. 'Imad al- Din says that Egyptian and Syrian officers were appointed to collect the payments and to give the departing Latins receipts that were to be submitted at the gate before leaving the city. Although this sounds like good administration, at the time the Latins were being counted and were making their departure, the city was in a state of chaos and there was much mismanagement of the ransom money collected. The grand masters of the Templars and Hospitallers were approached to donate money for the release of poor Latins, but when they resisted, a riot almost erupted and they were forced to contribute to the ransom.

There were examples of magnanimity on the part of the Muslim victors, however. The patriarch and Balian asked Salah al-Din to set some slaves free. Accordingly, he freed 700 slaves on behalf of the patriarch and 500 on behalf of Balian. Al-Malik al-'Adil, Salah al-Din's brother, asked him to release 1,000 slaves on his behalf and was granted his request. Furthermore, Salah al-Din sent his guard throughout the city to announce that all old people who could not pay would be allowed to leave the city: These came forth from the Postern of St. Lazar, and their departure lasted from the rising of the sun until night fell." Salah al-Din also allowed many noble women of Jerusalem to leave without ransom. Among them was Queen Sibyl, who left unhindered with all her entourage. Salah al-Din even granted her safe conduct to visit her captive husband in Nablus. The widow of Renaud of Chatillon was also released, as well as a Byzantine princess who had led a monastic life in Jerusalem and who was allowed to leave with all her entourage without paying a ransom. Some of Salah al-Din's commanders ransomed groups who they claimed belonged to their iqta' For example, the ruler of al-Bira asked for the release of 500 Armenians, and Muzaffar al-Din Ibn 'Ali Kuchuk asked for the release of 1,000, claiming that they had come from Edessa. Salah al-Din granted his request.

After the exodus of all those Latins who could leave, 15,000 individuals remained in the city. According to Imad al-Din, 7,000 of them were men and 8,000 were women and children. All were enslaved.

Emoul, by now a Latin refugee, indicated that the ransomed refugees were assembled in three groups. One was placed in the custody of the Templars and another in that of the Hospitallers, while Balian and Patriarch Heraclius took charge of the third. Salah al-Din assigned each group fifty of his officers to ensure their safe arrival in territories held by the Christians. One chronicler gives Salah al-Din's officers credit for their humane treatment of thc refugees, noting that these officers, " who could not endure the suffenng of the refugees, ordered their squires to dismount and set aged Christans upon their steeds. Some of them even carried Christian children in their arms."

The second bit here (from the line break) is from:
http://www.fordham.e...d/salahdin.html



#8 SarcasticCheese

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 12:32 PM

Oh wow.

I had no idea.

Where the :censor: have I been?

If Troy doesn't kill me, KoH will.

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#9 Guest_FairyPix_*

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 11:25 PM

Good info.I definitely feel informed. I can't wait to see how Orlando plays it out.I want to see him in a contemporary role too though. He's always being all historic! :wave: Just have to wait for Haven :wine:

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 06:06 PM

Hi, I have a question to ask regarding Balian. Is Balian a Christian knight, or a Muslim knight? I've been trying to find out more about Balian, and I keep finding conflicting info stating that he's a Christian, then stating he's a Muslim. I'm confused! I don't know which info is correct! Could someone help me sort this out? Thanks so much advance! It's going to be fascinating to see Orlando play Balian (Orlando's first major lead role! I'm so thrilled for him!). I'm wishing for May 6, 2005 to get here soon!

#11 Guest_paranoidangel_*

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (DeeDeeNay @ Fri, Jul 2, 2004, 02:06 PM)
Hi, I have a question to ask regarding Balian.  Is Balian a Christian knight, or a Muslim knight?  I've been trying to find out more about Balian, and I keep finding conflicting info stating that he's a Christian, then stating he's a Muslim.  I'm confused!  I don't know which info is correct!  Could someone help me sort this out?  Thanks so much advance!  It's going to be fascinating to see Orlando play Balian (Orlando's first major lead role!  I'm so thrilled for him!).  I'm wishing for May 6, 2005 to get here soon!

Balian helped defend Jerusalem against the Muslims. You can read the articles quoted earlier in this thread for more detail about the historical Balian (the script probably changed some things, though.)

#12 SuzieKat

SuzieKat

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 06:09 PM

Wow, thanks for all the info! This sounds like it will make a great movie! Can't wait to see Orlando in this role :crusader: .
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