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The Language of Troy

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I didn't see this anywhere else but if it is PEFIC feel free to delete .

From TORn:

Dialogue Coach Andrew Jack Website Online

Our good pal Keith Stern writes: Your readers may be interested in some material we've just posted to the website for Andrew Jack. Andrew of course was dialect/dialogue coach for LOTR and there's a link on this page to a very interesting document "Accent Rationale" which explains some of the basic thoughts they had about pronunciation. Also some info about TROY elsewhere on the site including a shot of Orlando Bloom and Andrew.

Andrew Jack's website discusses the dialects and languages that were used for Troy (as well as LOTR). Very interesting if you're into the pronunciations between Trojans and Greeks.

The special treat is the picture of Orlando, Eric, Andrew and Wolfgang Peterson on the set. Orlando again getting his hair attending to, smiling, while we can now drool over the calf's and arms! :huh: Erm. what was I saying? :blush:

You can find the information and picture here: Troy

The information on LOTR is Here and there is an additional page which called How Elijah Wood Learnt Elvish by Miranda Moore that includes this Orlando tidbit at the end:

With such enormous success, Jack can't help feeling some ghostly intervention has been going on. "Some very spooky things happened," he says. On one occasion Orlando Bloom fluffed his line, only to discover later on that there was a mistake in the script and he had inadvertently used the correct word. "You have to wonder where Orlando got the right word from," says Jack. The whole 'Hand of Tolkien' theory sounds somewhat unlikely. Tolkien famously hated Hollywood. When he received a film proposal in 1958 he condemned the script for deviating from the original book and only sold the film rights to pay off a bad debt. But Jack is convinced. "I like to think that Tolkien is looking down at us from above approvingly. In fact, I'm certain of it."

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Cool info, BellaU, thanks for posting.

Two cuties in sandals! *meep* :faint:

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BellaU, this is a great site. The Troy and LotR sections are the most detailed, and of the most interest to me, but it was fun to see the other movies Mr. Jack has worked on as well. I found the "Accent Rationale" discussion fascinating and will listen to the Troy DVD with newly tuned ears!

The photo from the set of Troy gives me some idea of how intense making a movie like this is for the actors. Eric and Orlando had so much poured into them, which they had to process, consolidate, and somehow turn into a performance. It would overwhelm me to have all that activity focused on me, I'm afraid: instruction from dialogue coach, hair/costuming person working on you, walkie-talkie guy coordinating something right behind you, several writers doing their thing, probably to your lines, and the director standing there next to you watching it all. :wacko: You would have to have incredible powers of concentration!

Thanks for the link.

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The photo from the set of Troy gives me some idea of how intense making a movie like this is for the actors. Eric and Orlando had so much poured into them, which they had to process, consolidate, and somehow turn into a performance. It would overwhelm me to have all that activity focused on me, I'm afraid: instruction from dialogue coach, hair/costuming person working on you, walkie-talkie guy coordinating something right behind you, several writers doing their thing, probably to your lines, and the director standing there next to you watching it all. :wacko: You would have to have incredible powers of concentration!

Thanks for the link.

Not to mention that, in the case of male cast members in Troy, the entire time you were working, a little voice in the back of your head would be screaming, "I'm standing here in front of all these people, and I'm not wearing any pants!"

I'm not so sure that the pronounciation choices in Troy were quite as effective as this site makes them out to be. In my opinion, there are several places in Troy where little bits of Australian pronounciation slipped into Eric Bana's lines. And several critics pointed out that Menelaus and Agamemnon did not sound as though they came from the same place, as brothers should.

Does anyone know how different RP is from Orlando's own regional accent?

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Hector and Paris, in sunglasses. :faint: Thanks for the link, BellaU.

Kelly

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Does anyone know how different RP is from Orlando's own regional accent?

Good question, I'm curious about that too.

Thank you BellaU, great link, interesting information.

:wave:

Aliza

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Does anyone know how different RP is from Orlando's own regional accent?

Good question, I'm curious about that too.

Wish I could get technical about this from my ancient linguistics days at uni but for any British person you can recognise the difference.

RP is pretty much the traditional "actor's English." I was going to say "Queen's English" which would probably get you most of the way there but it strikes me that "RP" is standard English with a further element of voice carrying and precise articulation.

Orlando's regional accent is Kent, probably mixed in with some London-ish. Orlando seems to have that London/SE thing going on (dropping the "t"s especially as in "bottle" becomes "bo.le") but seems able to adapt to standard English and, therefore, RP easily.... as I think most British people would be able to.

On this written forum I find it difficult to explain the difference but it is there. Orlando in LotR and, especially, Troy carries a much more precise or standard accent than he would have in everyday life.

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One pronunciation choice I found disturbing was turning Menelaus into Men-a-louse (not that this didn't describe his character). None of the reference sources I have access to give it this reading. It's always been Men-a-lay-us. Does anyone know why they decided to change it?

Curious.

Krissy

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RP is pretty much the traditional "actor's English." I was going to say "Queen's English" which would probably get you most of the way there but it strikes me that "RP" is standard English with a further element of voice carrying and precise articulation.

Orlando's regional accent is Kent, probably mixed in with some London-ish. Orlando seems to have that London/SE thing going on (dropping the "t"s especially as in "bottle" becomes "bo.le") but seems able to adapt to standard English and, therefore, RP easily.. as I think most British people would be able to.

On this written forum I find it difficult to explain the difference but it is there. Orlando in LotR and, especially, Troy carries a much more precise or standard accent than he would have in everyday life.

I think you would probably describe Orlando's normal voice as 'estruary English' - referring to the Thames estuary, running through London and the South East. Funnily enough I remember seeing a linguist in a newspaper a few years ago saying that the Queen now speaks estuary English, rather than 'The Queen's English' as we think of it. There is a very big difference between that very posh, cut-glass, precise accent and the much more slurred (especially on the vowels), and, well, lazier (missing letters out etc) estuary accent. There's a big difference in the rhythm too - you know how in some interviews Orlando will talk in quick bursts, and then pause to say 'like, you know' as his brain catches up with his mouth? Or 'umm, yeah'? You don't get that so much with an RP accent, I think because you speak more slowly (this also makes the speaker seem more intelligent, but that's partly a class distinction).

Orlando's potty mouth, especially the 'F' word, and the way he says 'darlin' and 'love' are from the time he has spent in London. Londoners swear all the time! But we're getting more onto dialect than accent now.

I must add at this point, that I have no training in linguistics at all, these observations come merely from living in the South East and mixing with people from various parts of the UK.

Kathryn.

ETA: I didn't notice until after I posted that I used 'you know' in the same sentence in which I wrote about Orlando doing it!

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Guest Lyssabug
It's always been Men-a-lay-us. Does anyone know why they decided to change it?

I was wondering about that too, :unsure:. Thanks for the link BellaU :notworthy:, languages and their pronounciations have always interested me for some odd reason. I love the pic of Hector and Paris :wub:, so darn cute. I'm also wondering how Orlando knew how to really pronouce the word correctly since it wasn't on the script :tomato:.

~Lyss~

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Guest Sweets

I don't really have anything to add about accents/dialects/pronunciations, you ladies said it all and quite well. (I just love the london-ish dialect that Orlando uses sometimes, it's mixed in with his regular speech and it's so soft and buttery, just guh! :faint:) Thanks a lot BellaU for the fascinating articles. That merits a few good discussions and a least one more viewing of LotR :). -Sweets

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Guest Smolak

I found the article so interesting that I wound up saving it! I do agree though that the pronunciation wasn't as good in the movie as it is made out to be!

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