Southern Accent Discussion (Part Deux)

[Jan]

OK, here's another interesting British vs. American english one for ya, that I didn't even know about until I started watching Two Fat Ladies on Food Network a few years back.

Worcestershire sauce. We pronounce it (well, most people try to pronounce it) as it is spelled - "worse-ter-shure sauce". Then I hear Jennifer Patterson call it "Worst-er sauce".

[Guest OnyxRose]

How do I put the person's name that I'm quoting on top of the quote? I have no idea how to do that.

My brother plays baseball, and he had Orlando sign the back of his jersey. Now the name of the town he plays in is pronounced "V-ill Pl-at" (I hope that makes sense) and it is spelled Ville Plattee. Well Orlando said :V-ile Plate, eh? Your not from around here, huh.

I'm from Lafayette, my dad is from Breaux Bridge. I've lost count in how many people have tried to pronounce it "Bri-ox Bridge".

[Spidur]

How do I put the person's name that I'm quoting on top of the quote?  I have no idea how to do that.

If you're not using the quote button within the post you're quoting (which automatically puts the day and time in there too), you'd do it this way:

[QUOTE=OnyxRose]I'm from Lafayette[/QUOTE]

and it would show like this:

I'm from Lafayette

[coolcounselorchick]

Tacenandy,

You asked about the history of the name, "Arkansas". It depends who you ask, but generally most people will tell you that the origin of Arkansas' name is derived from the Quapaw word meaning "south wind" and the French interpretation of the Sioux word "acansa" meaning "downstream place."

We find it pretty funny to hear our state called "R-Kansas". Just goes to show you that pronunciation, or rather mispronunciation, depends a lot upon where you are standing (state, country, etc.) when you say the words/phrases. :wink:

When I majored in Spanish in college, a lovely byproduct of all that language practice was a slight "weakening" of my southern accent (which I was quite pleased about). After working with teens and children all these years, though, I am afraid I am once again dropping "g" from words ("singin', goin', etc.) :paperbag:

A word I find hard to say without revealing my accent is "rural". Any other southerners agree?

CCC

[Aniethen]

Isn't language fascinating?

Whilst on holiday in San Antonio (waves to any residents of Bexar (which I'm informed is pronounced Bear) County), we met a gentleman who tried to convince us that he was British. His accent actually wasn't bad at all - till he made the mistake of saying he came from Birmingham - with the accent on the last syllable: BirmingHAM (yes, he came from Alabama). I'm an Essex girl, whilst the friend I was with is from Yorkshire, and neither of us has ever pronounced it any way other than Burrmingum, emphasis on the first syllable.

Incidentally, when I went to New York with the same friend, whilst everyone recognised that we were British, precisely ONE person realised we came from quite different parts of the country.

Jan, I'd generally be lazy and say Wusster Sauce - or Were-sess-ter-shire if I was being pedantic.

[little_green]

Sorry, this is really OT, but I'm an accent geek an can't resist. It's an addiction. I need Accent Geeks' Anonymous or something.

About Worcestershire Sauce.

I'm with Aniethen on this one. Colloquially, it's Wuss-ter Sauce. Maybe it's because Worcester is the specific place in Worcestershire that it comes from,or maybe it's because we're all a bit lazy (I'm going for the latter!). Either way, I very rarely call it Wuss-ter-shire Sauce. Mmmm... I haven't had Worcestershire Sauce for ages... now there's an idea.

Aaah, Two Fat Ladies... genius TV. Love it!

Also, I went to see the Reduced Shakespeare Company a couple of weeks ago in the West End of London. The company is made up of Americans, and to amuse the audience, who they presumed to be British, they made a joke where they said Stratford-upon-Avon was in War-wick-shire, expecting the British audience to laugh at their dodgy pronounciation. This was the point that my mother and I realised we were just about the only British people in the crowd as we guffawed loudly (along with a few other isolated Brits), and the rest of the audience of American tourists didn't bat an eyelid!

little_green

[miss_L]

coolcounselorchick

We find it pretty funny to hear our state called "R-Kansas". Just goes to show you that pronunciation, or rather mispronunciation, depends a lot upon where you are standing (state, country, etc.) when you say the words/phrases.

How excalty is Arkansas pronounced? I would have said it as R-Kansas, which I now know is not right.

Even in Australia, where I live, there are the names of a few of the state capitals that half the population pronounce one way and the other half another way, even in the city itself.

For example:

*the capital of the ACT (Australian Capital Territory), Canberra. Most say

"Can-bra", but others say "Can-berrra"

*the capital city of Victoria, Melborne. Said as either "Mel-burne" orMel-borne (think Bourne as in the movie title The Bourne Identity)

*the capital city of Queensland, Brisbane. "Bris-ban" or "Bris-bain"

I think I tend to do ok and pronounce names of English places correctly, because my parents are from Enlgand (they've been in Aus for the past 26 years). My mum is from Sittingborne in Kent (think we all know that is in the south) My dad is from Newcastle (northern) and still has a noticeable Geordie accent mixed with his Aussie stryne. When I talk to my rellies from all over England, I can understand all the different variations in their accents.

But for a difficult accent to understand, can't go past my uncle who was born in Newcastle so has a geordie accent, but has lived in Dunfermline in Scotland for the past 10 years. I still can't understand his geordie/scottish accent most of the time .

[Spidur]

coolcounselorchick

We find it pretty funny to hear our state called "R-Kansas". Just goes to show you that pronunciation, or rather mispronunciation, depends a lot upon where you are standing (state, country, etc.) when you say the words/phrases.

How excalty is Arkansas pronounced? I would have said it as R-Kansas, which I now know is not right.

It's "R-can-saw", or maybe it's easier to think "Arc-n-saw". Anywho, the emphasis on the "R".

Another one: Durham. There's one in at least NC, CT and England. No clue about England's, and I'm only vaguely aware of CT's being "Der-ram", but NC's is most definitely pronounced "Derm". And it would actually be in Norf Carolahna. Just don't get Charlotte (NC) and Charlottesville (VA) mixed up. I remember a newspaper article in the Richmond paper by someone who found a map published with the mix-up, and boy did he blast the poor guy.

Oh, and Beaufort ~ in NC and SC. One is "Bow-fert" and the other is "Bee-u-fert" (rhymes with "pew"), though I can't ever remember which is which.

[minktress]

So now I find myself wondering.  Do actors from the deep south really sound like that when we read Shakespeare before all the voice and diction coaching?  Or do we sound like that to everyone else even after the work?  Just wondering.

When Southern actors are acting and reciting Shakespeare, I'm sure they do their best English accent but every now and then that pesky twang can be heard. After coaching, it gets better, but I'd imagine not perfect. But hey Brad Dourif did it. Then again I don't know if he's really Southern. Anyway, it's a hard thing to shake . . y'all!

A word I find hard to say without revealing my accent is "rural". Any other southerners agree?

Actually, I'm not bad at that one, er, I guess compared to others I've heard. Nevermind, just said "rural" out loud, definite drawl . . damnit!

Whilst on holiday in San Antonio (waves to any residents of Bexar (which I'm informed is pronounced Bear) County)

Really? I didn't even know that and I'm from Houston! I always thought it was "Bay-har" like the Spanish pronunciation.

I'm from Lafayette' date=' my dad is from Breaux Bridge. I've lost count in how many people have tried to pronounce it "Bri-ox Bridge".  [/quote']

Ooh, ooh, I wanna play, lemme try! It's "Bro" Bridge like French right? Did I win a prize?

How excalty is Arkansas pronounced? I would have said it as R-Kansas' date=' which I now know is not right.[/quote']

"Arkansaw." I know, so silly. Like Illinois is "Illinoy". Such trickery!

Edit: Spidur's Arkansas is better.

When I talk to my rellies from all over England' date=' I can understand all the different variations in their accents.[/quote']

:lmao: Rellies! That's so cute. You British people say the coolest things. At first when y'all were talking about Orlando's "brolly" guy, I thought, you mean brawny? He is rather large . . Now I know it means umbrella, and I'm likely to say brolly from now on as "brolly guy" is one of my favorite phrases.

Whew! Lookie at all those quotes I just learned how to do. :wink: Thanks Spidur and OnyxRose for asking. I've been clueless about that since . .um, I joined!

[Mamaeve]

It will be interesting to hear what type of drawl he will have. I'll be pleased any way it comes out!

I grew up in Detroit, Michigan and at that time my brother, sister, and I all picked up 'fixin'. I don't know where we picked it up from, but our parents corrected us everytime we said it, so it's not a part of my dialect now. However, since living in Florida and working with many southerners I have picked up y'all.

My grandmother was born in Tennessee and she still says 'pickle lilly' = relish and 'oleo'=margarine. The one I heard her use more recently was 'jitney'=taxicab. I love it! She's 84. I am not sure if 'jitney' is just an old term or if it's southern. Any takers?

[little_green]

Another one: Durham.  There's one in at least NC, CT and England.  No clue about England's, and I'm only vaguely aware of CT's being "Der-ram", but NC's is most definitely pronounced "Derm".  And it would actually be in Norf Carolahna.   Just don't get Charlotte (NC) and Charlottesville (VA) mixed up.  I remember a newspaper article in the Richmond paper by someone who found a map published with the mix-up, and boy did he blast the poor guy.

Duh-rum. Emphasis on the Duh. Just in case you wanted to know!

You British people say the coolest things. At first when ya'll were talking about Orlando's "brolly" guy, I thought, you mean brawny? He is rather large . .    Now I know it means umbrella, and I'm likely to say brolly from now on as "brolly guy" is one of my favorite phrases.

Ooops, I think that was me that brought up the brolly guy! Don't you guys have that word? I guess with the amount it rains here, we need a shortened version of the word umbrella! What with that an the whole wheelie bin fiasco on the Elijah thread, I seem to be creating a lot of confusion! Sorry about that.

My grandmother was born in Tennessee and she still says 'pickle lilly' = relish

Isn't piccalilli a kind of bright yellow mustard relish that comes in jars and always has random bits of cauliflower in it? This stuff. Mingin' in my opinion. Not natural to eat something that yellow.

little_green

[Fantine]

Isn't language fascinating?

Whilst on holiday in San Antonio (waves to any residents of Bexar (which I'm informed is pronounced Bear) County), we met a gentleman who tried to convince us that he was British. His accent actually wasn't bad at all - till he made the mistake of saying he came from Birmingham - with the accent on the last syllable: BirmingHAM (yes, he came from Alabama). I'm an Essex girl, whilst the friend I was with is from Yorkshire, and neither of us has ever pronounced it any way other than Burrmingum, emphasis on the first syllable.

Incidentally, when I went to New York with the same friend, whilst everyone recognised that we were British, precisely ONE person realised we came from quite different parts of the country.

Jan, I'd generally be lazy and say Wusster Sauce - or Were-sess-ter-shire if I was being pedantic.

Yes, I find language extremely fascinating! I am so glad that I took all those linguistics classes in college.

I figured out that you weren't American the second I read the word "whilst" in your post. American English no longer uses that word. It's a "marker word" for British English.

[Spidur]

I figured out that you weren't American the second I read the word "whilst" in your post.    American English no longer uses that word.  It's a "marker word" for British English.

Almost always correct. But you have to beware those who are strong Anglophiles ~ around here particularly those of us who're Horatians also. I use "whilst" all the time now, and the total amount of time I've ever been in the UK is the time it took to go round trip between Heathrow and Gatwick.

As for Worster... the sauce thing ( ) I always say "Wuss-ter-shure sauce". Probably because there is a Worchester in Massachusetts, and it's pronounced "Wusster". :huh:

[Guest tacenandy]

You asked about the history of the name, "Arkansas".  It depends who you ask, but generally most people will tell you that the origin of Arkansas' name is derived from the Quapaw word meaning "south wind" and the French interpretation of the Sioux word "acansa" meaning "downstream place."

We find it pretty funny to hear our state called "R-Kansas".  Just goes to show you that pronunciation, or rather mispronunciation, depends a lot upon where you are standing (state, country, etc.)  when you say the words/phrases.  :wink:

. I am afraid I am once again dropping "g" from words ("singin', goin', etc.)  :paperbag: 

A word I find hard to say without revealing my accent is "rural".  Any other southerners agree?

Thanks for the etymology! I know everyone who comes here goes when they hear us say R-Kansas.

There's another funny one around here.a major street in Wichita is called 'Greenwich Road'-I used to live on it. Natives to the city call it 'Green-Which'; but everyone else remembers 'Grennich', like Greenwich Village, and pronounces it that way.

I have tried, as I've gotten older, to stick a '-g' on the end of my words-just for the sake of articulation. But the word 'rural' is a different story. It never sounds right when you say it, anyway, kind of like you have marbles in your mouth!

[starfire]

As for Worster. the sauce thing ( ) I always say "Wuss-ter-shure sauce".  Probably because there is a Worchester in Massachusetts, and it's pronounced "Wusster".  :huh:

Unless you live east (or sometimes north) of the city, then you can pronounce it "Wuss-tah" with the accent on the second syllable. Lots of people in my part of New England say "Wuss-tah-shear" sauce. It's amazing how much one word can change depending on what part of the country (or world) you inhabit.

[coolcounselorchick]

Just back in and checked this thread.I find accents and language fascinating, too.

miss_L, so glad Spidur and minktress helped you out with the rather "interesting" pronunciation of my home state. Oddly enough, though, the inhabitants of Arkansas (AR-can-saw) are referred to as Arkansans (Ar-can-sans (though some people still try to convince others to use Arkansawyers--many find that a bit too rural of a pronunciation)!

If I recall, one of the words that can pinpoint a southern (or northeastern, etc.)accent quickly is the word "pen". It seems to me that it may be the vowels in words which so often reveal an accent. :huh: I know when I used to teach Spanish I would get really tickled sometimes when some of my students with extremely strong southern accents would pronounce Spanish with their southern accent. I would sometimes suggest to them that they must be from Southern Mexico (yes, I know--lame :paperbag: ).

I myself love to hear British English spoken. I love the sound of it, and the unique "slang" used. I have some friends from England who had to explain to me that they use the term "English" to refer to themselves--not British as I had thought. Is that right? Why is that?

CCC

[Spidur]

I know when I used to teach Spanish I would get really tickled sometimes when some of my students with extremely strong southern accents would pronounce Spanish with their southern accent.

You have no idea until you've sat in an entire class of them. I still laugh at the memories of my classmates speaking their Southern-accented foreign languages. I can't even type the phonetic spelling of the way they spoke, it was that deep of a drawl.

Unless you live east (or sometimes north) of the city, then you can pronounce it "Wuss-tah" with the accent on the second syllable.

Yep. Definitely the Bostonian pronunciation of it. I have a friend that lives up that way and love hearing the way she talks.

[Mamaeve]

My grandmother was born in Tennessee and she still says 'pickle lilly' = relish

Isn't piccalilli a kind of bright yellow mustard relish that comes in jars and always has random bits of cauliflower in it? This stuff. Mingin' in my opinion. Not natural to eat something that yellow.

little_green

It's possible that it is the stuff, but she ALWAYS says that word when referring to.. well... pickle relish. We never used that yellow stuff. Eeeeewwww!

Eve

[Fantine]

I figured out that you weren't American the second I read the word "whilst" in your post.    American English no longer uses that word.  It's a "marker word" for British English.

Almost always correct. But you have to beware those who are strong Anglophiles ~ around here particularly those of us who're Horatians also. I use "whilst" all the time now, and the total amount of time I've ever been in the UK is the time it took to go round trip between Heathrow and Gatwick.

As for Worster. the sauce thing ( ) I always say "Wuss-ter-shure sauce". Probably because there is a Worchester in Massachusetts, and it's pronounced "Wusster". :huh:

It sounds like you deliberately added "whilst" to your vocabulary because it's a marker word for British English. It's how you show everyone that you are an Anglophile. Please don't think that I'm arguing with you, I just like talking about languages.

[BigBird]

Just back in and checked this thread.I find accents and language fascinating, too.

I have some friends from England who had to explain to me that they use the term "English" to refer to themselves--not British as I had thought. Is that right? Why is that?

CCC

"Britain" and "England" are not synonyms. "Britain" is island which is home to three countries - England, Scotland and Wales (and "Great Britain" includes Northern Ireland).

People living in England are "English". those in Wales are "Welsh" and those in Scotland are "Scots". They are all "British" technically, being subject to the same monarch and being governed by the same parliament. However with devolution there are now local assemblies in each country.

Back in the '50s and '60s, when I was growing up even here in Australia, as I think it was elsewhere in the Commonwealth and Empire we were "British". In fact my first passport, issued in 1968, is marked "British Subject". That has long since changed, however.

(Here endeth the lesson :paperbag: )

[coolcounselorchick]

Thanks for the clarification, BigBird. The brain fog seems to be lifting somewhat!

If I understand what you're saying, English is to British as Arkansan is to North American. :huh: (I never was much good at analogies.)

Seriously, I do get it. Thanks for the history lesson. I guess I just wasn't thinking it through.

CCC

[PotNoodle]

"Britain" and "England" are not synonyms. "Britain" is island which is home to three countries - England, Scotland and Wales (and "Great Britain" includes Northern Ireland).

Mmm, I'm afraid that's not entirely accurate. Strictly speaking,

Great Britain (or Britain) = England + Scotland + Wales

United Kingdom = Great Britain + Northern Ireland

(and British Isles = United Kingdom + Republic of Ireland + Channel Islands)

However, many Brits (a Brit (or Briton) being an Englishman, a Scotsman, a Welshman or a Northern Irishman) use the terms Great Britain and the United Kingdom as though they were synonymous (i.e. to mean the United Kingdom). And officialdom isn't much better: it's interesting to note that at the Olympics (and in fact in many sports), the UK team is titled Great Britain ! Why ? I have no idea !

[AllisonPJ]

And officialdom isn't much better: it's interesting to note that at the Olympics (and in fact in many sports), the UK team is titled Great Britain!  Why ?  I have no idea  !

You know, I'd wondered about that. I noticed during the opening ceremonies that their team came in as Great Britain and thought it was strange (I think I was paying more attention because the Parade of Nations was in order of the Greek alphabet, and I was having fun trying to guess who would be next. ).

In the past, haven't they always been at the Olympics as the United Kingdom? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

[kathryn]

OMG!  Just when you thought you'd seen everything.  This discussion began with musings of Southern phrases and terms in an English accent.  Now I'll go you one better.  Old English with a Southern accent.   

We went to see a performance of Taming of the Shrew on Sat. evening and they had updated it from the original 1600s to the West of 1880s.

I'm going to be really pedantic here, but I had a real jolt reading your post for a similar reason to yours when you were watching the play.

The Taming of the Shrew is not Old English, it is Elizabethan English. The difference? Nearly 600 years! Old English is closer to German than modern (or Elizabethan) English - you actually need a dictionary to understand it. Elizabethan English is really very close to modern English - Shakespeare actually coined many of the words and phrases we commonly use today, most of what we have lost is the slang.

Old English (or Anglo-Saxon) was the commonest form of language in this country before the Norman Conquest in 1066 - everything after that has a French/Norman influence. Initially there was just a split - the aritocrats (the Normans) spoke French and the peasants spoke Anglo-Saxon. That is why we have words like pig and pork, or cow and beef. Pig comes from Anglo-Saxon - the language of the people who raised the animal, pork comes from French- the language of the people who got to eat the animal.

Of course the two languages eventually merged to become first Anglo-Norman, and then English ( more or less) as we know it today.

It's not possible to speak Old English with an American accent. Really, it's not, it just would not be the right language. And Old English is pronounced in a completely different way to modern Received Pronunciation - there was a great vowel shift, after which for some reason many people (especially here in the south) spoke with elongated vowels rather than short ones. Like the 'o' in 'loch' rahter than the 'o' in 'shop'.

I'll stop lecturing you all now

Kathryn.

P.S. For anyone crazy enough to read this far, if you're interested, you can hear some Old English on the EE TT DVD - Eowyn's lament at the funeral is in it, and Aragorn speaks some to Brego in the stables ("you have a kingly name"). I really will shut up now.

[Guest Rachel_M]

Great Britain (or Britain) = England + Scotland + Wales

United Kingdom = Great Britain + Northern Ireland

(and British Isles = United Kingdom + Republic of Ireland + Channel Islands)

Thank you so, so much. It was never made clear to me what the difference between the UK and GB were, so like most people, I used them as synonyms . Thanks again .

Rachel.