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Just a general comment. There was some talk of Edward Norton's wonderful performance as King Baldwin being uncredited, so I thought I'd stay to watch the full cast credits at the end of the movie to see if it was true. Firstly, it took ages for the full cast list to roll around, they credited all the CGI dudes, and everyone who built the set, and all the orchestras and choirs etc. before they got to the cast! But I had a look, and Norton is credited. He's just not in the single names on the screen kind of cast listing at the beginning of the credits. That strikes me as slightly odd, actually. His role is considerably bigger than many who were credited there. Any movie buff willing to shed light on the situation? Anyhoo, just thought I'd mention it.

LG

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I was reading an interview with Eva Green and she was very upset that the love scene had been cut from the movie. There was also mention of another subplot involving her character.

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There was supposed to be a story concerning the death of her child. I was wondering if this could be the reason for the seeming coldness between Sybylla and Balian during the seige of Jerusalem? Maybe she in some way blamed Balian.

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Did anyone notice that some scenes seemed to be missing? For example, some scenes from the love scene that featured in the trailer. I posted about this but it's disappeared. Think they will be on the DVD?

Typically, trailers are cut long before the finished product. I think the material in the trailers will be on the DVD. Sadly, it will be too late to rescue the film from the clutches of the editing room monster and the reviews that don't seem to 'get' that Balian was never meant to be another Maximus.

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Guest Bog Iris
Did anyone notice that some scenes seemed to be missing?

You bet! This may or may not have been a "scene," but I sat through KoH waiting to see Orlando on that camel! Didn't we have a production photo floating around here of him on a camel? I really wanted to see it!

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This may or may not have been a "scene," but I sat through KoH waiting to see Orlando on that camel!  Didn't we have a production photo floating around here of him on a camel?

Those were just on-set photos, probably taken between scenes or during a break.

It seemed to me that the only ones seen actually riding the camels were Bedouins or other 'locals'. :wink:

But I had a look, and Norton is credited.  He's just not in the single names on the screen kind of cast listing at the beginning of the credits.  That strikes me as slightly odd, actually.  His role is considerably bigger than many who were credited there.  Any movie buff willing to shed light on the situation?

LG, for SAG/Equity compliance, they would have to list him somewhere, I believe unless he specifically asked to NOT be listed anywhere. (This happens a lot with writers and directors when something turns out to be complete and utter crap, but I'm not sure if SAG/Equity allows members to do this.)

It is possible that he didn't want to be listed in the cast of major players; and it was undoubtedly included in his contract to not be listed. Maybe they wanted it to be a 'secret'? Not well kept, if that's the case.

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Also helpful is finally watching all the History vs. Hollywood and Behind and Making of stuff. Apparently the hair cutting, which I never got, was something they did to prepared to be martyred since everyone was under threat to be put to the sword when the city was overrun.

This movie was way chopped up in all the wrong spots, or they left just enough in to be confusing as hell about some things.

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OBM has posted the translation of an article from FLIX. It is an interview with Orlando and he is asked some questions about the filming of the love scene in KOH. I'm not too familiar with different magazines, so I don't know how accurate this is. If it is true, it seem quite a lot was left on the cutting room floor. On the other hand, if you read it, you may need this. :salt:

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I saw that too. I'm not sure about Flix, though. :oh:

I think I'll just wait until the dvd comes out and see.

Candi

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I haven't seen this posted anywhere else, but while I was watching the movie, I could not help thinking how much Balian was like Orlando himself in a number of ways.

Orlando describes Balian as a reluctant hero, and to some degree, Orlando is one as well. A man from humble beginings who is quickly thrust into the public eye, gaining fame and fortune and respect. But it's really not the reason he's doing what he is doing. He remains his humble self, and does not give in to the sterotypical behaviors of his position. He cares more about the core of the human soul and his actions are more for the good of people then the glory he could gain.

In this light, Balian seems an awful lot like our man himself, at least in the basics of his personality.

Please tell me I was not the only one to notice this. (I'm sure I wasn't.)

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Guest Meleth

I just saw the film for the first time, had a bit of a special experience.I was all alone in the cinema. :D Just me, the big silver screen and a big comfy chair. I kicked off my shoes, threw my legs over the chair in front and settled in for a two and a half hours of pure filmmagic without anybody else chattering, rustling their sweets wrappers, farting, leaving, coming or forgetting to turn off their phones. Pure heaven.

Loved the film by the way, very impressed by Orlando, and I love all the supporting characters, many wich I know well since ages and love in any film. :D

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I kicked off my shoes, threw my legs over the chair in front and settled in for a two and a half hours of pure filmmagic without anybody else chattering, rustling their sweets wrappers, farting, leaving, coming or forgetting to turn off their phones. Pure heaven.

:lmao: Your post just made me rolling on the floor, Meleth! You are too funny. I am the opposite. I don't know why, but I get uneasy when there aren't that many people in the theatre. I like large crowd. Maybe it's my way of letting loose, and become one with the crowd. I LOVE it when audience go wild, laughing and screaming.

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Guest Meleth

Well, it was like having a private screening just for me, like I had my own cinema in my house or something. I live very close to two major theatres so I go alone every now and then and it's always fun. :P

I've not been that impressed with Orlando's acting in previous films, a lot because he's been playing rather dull parts, cardboard cut outs of different characters. The film with him I've enjoyed most was The Calcium Kid, more personality and more chance for Orlando to act properly.

But.I like KoH because he carried the film so well and it was obvious how Balian grew throughout the ordeal. And, Michael Gambon, David Thewlis, Liam Neeson, Jeremy Irons, Edward Norton, need I say more? They are all fantastic actors and it was great seeing them all in the same film!

I've read a lot about the Crusades and especially Salladin so I was relieved to see that they portraited him accuratley, as a wise leader and warrior who wasn't just in it for the glory and for killing Christians.

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You know, I've always been too chickenpoo to go to a movie by myself, but after reading your post, Meleth, I think I might give it a try. :lol:

KoH really was a great movie. I was proud of Orlando's performance and although a lot of scenes were missing ( love scene) I didn't feel cheated when I left the theater. But of the whole film, the best scene to me was Balian and Guy's first confrontation, right after the shipwreck. Balian seemed so angry, that slow-burning fuse kind, where if your buttons are pushed just one more time you'll snap. I was so intrigued by that scene, and Orlando played it beautifully. Especially when Guy tried to poke Balian in the arm, and Balian swatted his hand away. That was cool. :smoke:

Hope I'll get to see it at least one more time before it leaves the theaters. What does it have, another two weeks or so?

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Guest Meleth

I really liked that scene too! It was a favourite. But I did miss a confrontation between the two though, there was a lot of anger but never any real confrontation between the two, I would've liked to have seen that.

I doubt I'll go and see it in the cinema again, there are so many other films I want to go and see right now.

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I don't know if it is the right place to post this, but I visited Korean KOH site, and it looks like KOH is going strong over there ( although SW has swept everything over there too ). They are doing a promotion for those who go to see the film, and they had a link to Orlando fan site. Lo and behold! It was a link to Orlando Bloom Multimedia. :) I was pleasantly surprised to see Koreans knowing about this site. And here is one of the quotes said by the critics :

Orlando's ability to convey emotions with his eyes alone is incredible.

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I'm curious. We all have seen how the public in the USA and overseas have received KOH and we also have some idea of the critics opions. What I am wondering is how the movie is being viewed by Orlando's peers. I would love to know what those in the business thought about it. I have a feeling it's a much higher opinion than the one the American public has.

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Sadly...I will be moving all of the KOH threads back into a single Forum under Orlando's films, probably this weekend.

:(

But look at it this way - we'll have an Elizabethtown category in a couple of months! :w00t:

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:cry:

Oh well. how do they say, "Don't cry cause it's over, smile cause it happened." So -- :shiny: .

Jan, thank you for always taking such good care of organising the forum, and us. :hug:

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I have now moved all Forums within the KOH 'category' back to the general Orlando Films category. I decided to make all of the Forums into 'sub-Forums', as there were so many topics!

The only exception is the TV/Magazine alerts; as most of them are long past :( , they've been merged into the general TV/Mags thread.

I'll be doing the same actions when Elizabethtown begins to ramp up, probably around late August/early September - or as warranted. :wink:

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One thing I have been thinking about since seeing KOH, is how critics and commentators have latched on to the 'message' of KOH in a slighted warped way. That is religious fanaticism as an excuse for war and how 'good' people only wanted peace, and was wondering whether they watched the same film as I did!

Let me explain, whilst religious fanaticism was used as an excuse for war and power, with the charcter of Guy de Lusignan being used as a syphon for this story element, the good guys were not good for purely altruistic or noble reasons.

A key moment is before Balian sails to Jerusalem, there is a scene at Medina (?) where he looks across the beach at Muslims praying and turns to his companion and says 'they are allowed to worship here', his companion replies 'only if they pay their taxes'. That is not tolerance, but profit at work.

This coupled with Tiberias comments about coming for war, and ending up with peace and the estate that Balian inherited from his Father, illustrated for me at least. (and I think was intentional on the part of the film makers)is that there is money and power to be had out of peace as well as well as war.

Perhaps, because my knowledge of Medieval history is fairly sound, I knew that pilgrims of whatever religious demonination, were expected to pay for safe passage across a crusaders land, in return for protection, before I went into the cinema. I just wish that had been made clearer in the film, it would have given some dialogue and scenes a different context. Heres hoping that the extended DVD will bring that element of KOH into focus.

On a different note, I do think that KOH has suffered because Fox didn't know how to promote it. It is not really a film about battles, but an intelligent medieval political drama about the relationship between, religion, land, war and power. Not the most enticing tag line to have over a film poster :oh:

Diane

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Thanks for your insightful comments Diane. Once again, you have give us an articulate, intelligent, well informed point of view. And I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. I don't think Fox quite got the film they expected.

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Thanks for your insightful comments Diane. Once again, you have give us an articulate, intelligent, well informed point of view. And I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. I don't think Fox quite got the film they expected.

Not just Fox either! I think the 'boring bits' that some critics and members of the cinema going public commented on, was the political drama that was central to KOH. I think those critics that praised KOH for being an intellegent film, were the ones' that got KOH, I think Fox may have understood the film too, but were afraid to market it as such, like I said in my previous post, I think Fox realised that marketing KOH as a medieval political drama, was extremely risky and likely to put off large sectors of the cinema going public.

I believe this is why KOH had no tagline, the only selling factor Fox could think of was 'from the director of Gladiator', not very imaginative, but from a marketing point of view safe.

I also think, nay despair for film at the moment. I loved KOH, as film with or without Orlando, it would have made no difference, yet the response from the cinema going public has been warm but not great. Yet, a turgid boring pointless mess of style over substance, and the worse film I have ever paid to see at the cinema, Sin City, has had raved reviews and good responses from cinema audiences. That coupled with the fact that people are lining up in droves to see a clunking badly acted kids film, because it has Star Wars above the title (sorry Star Wars fans, but if the prequels had not been Star Wars films, they would have been consigned to the cinema dustbin), I am just :wtf: where are all the adult film goers?

The funny thing is of these three films, Sith, Sin City and KOH, it is, I believe, and as cinema history has taught us KOH that will be watched and enjoyed in 10 years time far more than Sith or Sin City.

Diane

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I haven't seen "Sin City" or ROTS, and don't intend to. I know they're not my sort of film. (I loved the original "Star Wars", but was deeply disappointed with the prequels when I finally caught up with them.)

The suits in Hollywood know just the type of product that will draw juvenile males (of all ages) into the cinema and get them to part with their money. I understand that both "Sin City" and "Sith" have the requisite amount of blood, guts and sex to fulfil their requirements.

Said suits just don't know what to do with a 'thinking' epic. I agree that in 10 years time KOH will doubtless be a respected film. It's what happened to "Blade Runner", which didn't exactly set the world on fire when first released.

I also get the feeling that the director's cut of KOH is going to be a much better version than the theatrical one - again like "Blade Runner".

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Interesting and insightful comments, Diane and BigBird.

I have seen KOH several times and each time I'm amazed at the brilliance of the story-telling. The people I know that have seen it, loved it. In fact, one of my second grade teachers was so inspired that he booked a trip to Jerusalem during our summer intercession!

It's interesting the way y'all describe the lack of ability to promote the film well. Because as I look back at the promo interviews, the actors, and especially Orlando knew how to promote the essence of the film.

Diane, I think you really put the nail on the head, so-to-speak, when you mentioned that you had a good foundation of the history of that time when you went to the cinema. I had a little, but began reading up and discussing this period of history with an historian whose 'specialty' is that time period. He saw the film and thoroughly enjoyed it, but now I remember he also said something about the fact that the war was not only destructive, but profitable and he wasn't sure that was well played-out in the script.

I too look forward to the director's cut and behind-the-scenes DVD, for many reasons, but maybe to lay to rest some of the less-informed naysayers rubbish about the film.

I too would have seen this film, regardless of Orlando. But he was a bonus for me!

I agree also with y'all that this will be a film that unlike some others put out this summer, will be one that people will watch years and years from now. I can almost see comments when the extended DVD comes out, that it will get rave reviews.and it would almost be funny, if it weren't for the fact that all of that grand attention should've been given to the original film as well.

Thanks for letting me share my two-cents worth!

Lisa Q

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