Ka-Bloomie Reviews

[Ladyhawke]

I've enjoyed reading all your comments! I saw it at an early show Thursday night and was completely stunned by Will's death. To be honest, I had a really bizarre experience---I don't remember things that happened immediately afterwards. I've heard people mention Jack and Elizabeth flying (floating?) off the ship? I vaguely remember someone putting Will's hand on the knife but I don't remember seeing who did what. I don't remember Davy Jones' death. I guess it was stupid of me not to see it coming but I didn't. I just remember feeling absolutely gutted and numb. I did realize what would inevitably happen to Will after that, and as painful as that realization was, it was also incredibly powerful and moving.

Their scene in DMC now has added poignancy:

"I'll wait for you."

"Keep a weather eye on the horizon."

[CaliMom]

completely stunned by Will's death. To be honest, I had a really bizarre experience---I don't remember things that happened immediately afterwards. I've heard people mention Jack and Elizabeth flying (floating?) off the ship? I vaguely remember someone putting Will's hand on the knife but I don't remember seeing who did what. I don't remember Davy Jones' death. I guess it was stupid of me not to see it coming but I didn't. I just remember feeling absolutely gutted and numb.

I'm right there with you on that part. During my first viewing on Friday night, the parts immediately following Will's death were a blur. My older ka-Bloomette later shared with me her thoughts while Will was dying, "No! Will can't die! The ka-Bloomies will be devastated!"

I also want to express my thanks to everyone for their comments and insight into the various plot themes. They definitely enhanced my second viewing, and will continue to do so for my third viewing (hopefully tomorrow) and every viewing after that! :flowers: I've enjoyed reading through this thread so much. I don't recall there being so much discussion after DMC, but then I remembered that some of us were at PirateCon discussing it together in person. Having this thread is great in that I can always go back and refer to it if I come up with other questions.

[spice]

I was reading an article on Wikipedia about Will and him being the captain of the Flying Dutchman. In it, they said there was an interview with T&T that said because of Elizabeth's pure love for Will, after 10 years of him ferrying souls, he'd be free to be with her. Anyone else hear that? It wasn't documented, so I took it with several grains of salt, but I was just wondering if anyone else saw this.

Lisa

[Semmley]

There's no doubt in my mind that the curse has been broken. It died with the death of Davy Jones, who was cursed by his betrayal of Tia Dalma/Calypso. Will was true to everything he had promised, and he would have upheld the responsibility of ferrying the dead. Elizabeth was true to Will over the long years. There was such joy on Will's face when he came back, and the green flash was seen. He knew all was well. Elizabeth didn't really need to tell Will she loved him. Her actions on the beach when she ran to say a last good-bye said it all. And the words Will spoke to her when he gave her the chest "It has always belonged to you". Ah!! Then there is the scene with the boot Barbossa was a scream performing the marriage ceremony. One of the highlights of the film I thought. Jack was as devious as ever. Loved Teague. I could go on and on. The plots, sub-plots, all gave it that fantasy "feel". I enjoyed A.W.E. and perhaps it is the hints, and seemingly unresolved threads of plot-lines which give the film its magic. Cut and dried can be boring.

Semmley

[Adrianne]

Good points, Krissy. It breaks my heart that so many people will never know about the resolution of Will and Elizabeth's tale because they didn't sit through the credits. That scene wasn't just an add on for giggles and grins, that was an important, finishing touch to the movie and should have been the final scene BEFORE the credits. Sometimes I wonder at the idiocy employed to make decisions about the final cut of a movie. It isn't the first time that Orlando or one of his characters has been short changed (or worse) by bad editing.

Semmley, I loved the mad marriage scene! It is, in fact, one of my favorite action sequences. Barbosa is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. I had forgotten how much I enjoyed him in the first film.

Someone mentioned the idea that when Davy Jones returned to land after his initial 10 year stint expecting to find Calypso waiting for him, that she may have been with Jack. That's not possible, unless dear ol' Jackie is a few hundred years old or more. When the 'brethren' meet at Shipwreck Cove, Barbosa says, 'There hasn't been a gatherin' like this in our lifetime.' That gathering is the fourth such meeting of the brethren and since it was the first in 'their lifetime' it means that the third had to have occured before any of them were born. Calypso was imprisoned in human form during the first gathering of the brethren court, which Barbosa said occured in another age. It was Davy Jones who told the pirates how to imprison her, something he did out of grief and anger over what he saw as Calypso's betrayal of him. So Davy Jones and Tia Dalma have been around for what I gather are centuries. Ergo, Jack was not the reason for Calypso's absense.

Also, during the conversation between Tia Dalma and Davy Jones, she says, 'It's been torture being trapped in this one form' or words to that effect. So as a goddess she undoubtly had the ability to take many forms including that of a woman.

During the scene when Barbosa, Will and company show up at Davy Jones' locker to rescue Jack and Jack says 'Four of you have tried to kill me in the past, one of you succeeded', there's this little interplay between Jack and Tia in which she flirtingly says to him, 'Don't tell me you didn't enjoy it at the time'. Again this is a bit of a paraphrase because it's difficult to catch exactly what she says. So, I'm wondering if Tia tried to kill Jack at one time. It would explain his reluctance to seek her help in Pirates II. In that case the four who tried to kill him in that group would have been Barbosa, Will, Tia and Elizabeth.

Boy lots of stuff to mull over. There are other things I have questions about, but I can't remember them off hand. I'll be back when they come to mind.

[Sherwood]

By the way . does anyone have the soundtrack? Is Hoist the Colors on it with the words?

"Hoist the Colors" is indeed on the soundtrack - the first song actually, although It's the shortened version used in the hanging not the extended one Elizabeth sings before being confronted by Tai Huang in Singapore. As you know from seeing the film "Hoist the Colors" is blended together with Will and Elizabeth's theme throughout the soundtrack.

(By the way, was that actually Keira singing that bit in Singapore? It didn't sound like her voice, but Hans Zimmer implied in an interview during TV Guide's coverage of the premiere that it was her. For me, something just didn't sound right.)

Their scene in DMC now has added poignancy:

"I'll wait for you."

"Keep a weather eye on the horizon."

I caught that as well. It is a throw back to that scene in the Port Royal jail. I have always loved that exchange anyway - with the almost kiss.

Thanks again for all this discussion.

[cazrider]

I have really enjoyed returning to this thread so thanks to everyone for your wonderful posts (Geri, yours was really helpful and TF I agreed with a lot of your views).

I took Mr Caz for my second viewing on Friday and, while he enjoyed it, he pulled the plot to pieces on the drive home. He complimented all of the acting and the cinematography but expressed frustration at the plot.

I found I, too, understood more the second time around (and could relax and stare at Orlando even more..... discreetly in the presence of hubby, obviously ) but I still cannot get my head around the whole Calypso plot and, well, just the purpose of it. It seemed like a major distraction from the story.

Looking back I also think the movie lacked any real stand-out sequences. In DMC, for instance, I would name the cannibal village/bone cage sequence, then the scene in Tia Dalma's house and finally the wheel sequence as memorable and very funny (ridiculously so). With AWE my memories are now blurred into one big sea battle. Don't get me wrong, I loved Will's "death" scene and his resurrection on the Flying Dutchman (and, of course, the scene on the beach) but I was hoping for some real laugh-out-loud sequences and I don't really recall any.

I also echo many of your thoughts that the "multiple Captain Jacks" were indulgent and unnecessary.

That said, I still enjoyed it overall and, honestly, if I read another review describing Orlando as "bland" and "in the background" I am going to do something extreme ( ) because it just is not true. He was especially good in the scene with Beckett and Davy Jones (I know LG likes that one) but there were many other times in the movie I felt he was spot-on.

Having pulled AWE to pieces I should add my congratulations to Gore Verbinski and the writers because, in many ways, the movie was really well executed and oozed professionalism. I just feel the plot revealed the pressure they were under to produce something amazing from little material.

[Buttercup]

I think the four people who tried to kill Jack were: Tia Dalma - "Don't tell me you didn't enjoy it at the time." Hector Barbosa - so obvious; Will - "I practice with them three times a day so when I meet a pirate, I can kill him." COTBP and Elizabeth - the one who succeeded.

Nin I found the word to Hoist the Colours

Yo, ho, haul together,

hoist the Colors high.

Heave ho,

thieves and beggars,

never shall we die.

The king and his men

stole the queen from her bed

and bound her in her Bones.

The seas be ours

and by the powers

where we will we’ll roam.

Yo, ho, haul together,

hoist the Colors high.

Heave ho, thieves and beggars,

never say we die.

Some men have died

and some are alive

and others sail on the sea

– with the keys to the cage…

and the Devil to pay

we lay to Fiddler’s Green!

The bell has been raised

from it’s watery grave…

Do you hear it’s sepulchral tone?

We are a call to all,

pay head the squall

and turn your sail toward home!

Yo, ho, haul together,

hoist the Colors high…

Heave ho, thieves and beggars,

never say we die.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Buttercup

[millisa]

What a wonderful ending at the end of a wonderful trilogy.

Don't get me wrong, even if I heard through the grapevines of the finale, it took me by surprise nonetheless. I sat there shocked for a minute not believing what had happened. But I sat through the credits, and my darling-son patiently at my side.

What can I say more, an ending Orlando could have written for himself, beautiful soul that he is.

I will watch it again, without my adolescent son, so I can get truly emotional.

Love

Isa

[McJules]

(By the way, was that actually Keira singing that bit in Singapore? It didn't sound like her voice, but Hans Zimmer implied in an interview during TV Guide's coverage of the premiere that it was her. For me, something just didn't sound right.)

Sherwood, I felt that way too, that it didn't sound like Keira but had heard it was her singing.

Their scene in DMC now has added poignancy:

"I'll wait for you."

"Keep a weather eye on the horizon."

I caught that as well. It is a throw back to that scene in the Port Royal jail. I have always loved that exchange anyway - with the almost kiss.

I agree with you both about the poignancy of that scene as well.

spiceitup2007, T&T posted on their site about Will being free after fulfilling his duty and I belive Nin posted it a few pages back.

Buttercup, thank you so much for the words.

Thank you all for the continued discussion.

[serendipity]

I just returned from seeing AWE, and have been catching up on the reviews. I've got something of a headache so I'm going to have to finish reading them later. I don't have a review yet, but I do feel better about the end of the movie now. The "10 year" explanation really made me feel better. I may see it again tomorrow with my 9 year old nephew and I know there will be questions galore about everything. I'm glad to have an answer for this one.

[dreambeliever]

Good points, Krissy. It breaks my heart that so many people will never know about the resolution of Will and Elizabeth's tale because they didn't sit through the credits. That scene wasn't just an add on for giggles and grins, that was an important, finishing touch to the movie and should have been the final scene BEFORE the credits.

Krissy and Adrianne, I agree with both of you! The first time I saw the movie with my family, we had to leave the movie right after the credits (dispite the fact I knew of the extra scene). I left the theater with such a heavy heart thinking Will and Elizabeth would only be together that 'One Day'. Needless to say my second viewing was a completely different experience. My concern though is that even with seeing the added scene at the end I still was confused as to whether Will was to stay or whether he had to go back to sea for another 10 years. Maybe I am the only one that was confused, but it wasn't until I read all the comments here did I understand his true fate. I'm afraid the audience that does not have the benefit of the whole explanation of the curse may be similarly confused which may add to dissapointment in the end of the movie. Well, being that I am not a writer I still feel T&T did a brilliant job bringing all the pieces together at the end.

It isn't the first time that Orlando or one of his characters has been short changed (or worse) by bad editing.

Adrianne I was thinking the same thing. Somehow it just doesn't seem fair!!!

I too just want to thank everyone that has posted all their comments and ideas here in this forum. It has added to my understanding and enjoyment of the movie tremendously.

Kim

[MBailey53]

You know, I may be an old woman, but I am so in love with this movie. It was so entertaining, and I so needed the escape. And , of course, Will was brilliant. Keira, also. It broke my heart, but it was the right ending for all of them. I don't have all of the eloquence of everyone else, Geri, LadyNin, etc.,but it did satisify me. Ok, I am a freaky middle aged person. Hugs to you all.

MB53

PS. Jan, feel better, darlin'

[LadyNin]

You know, I may be an old woman, but I am so in love with this movie. It was so entertaining, and I so needed the escape. And , of course, Will was brilliant. Keira, also. It broke my heart, but it was the right ending for all of them. I don't have all of the eloquence of everyone else, Geri, LadyNin, etc.,but it did satisify me. Ok, I am a freaky middle aged person. Hugs to you all.

You know, Sheri, I think us "old women" have a better perspective sometimes . a more seasoned experience of both comedy and tragedy so that we can appreciate both. We all need the escape that such a loopy, fun romp offers. And I don't think we're freaky. The first time I saw AWE, I went to a 10 a.m. matinee and sat next to a gray-haired woman like myself who told me she was a real "pirates" fan. She'd had a stroke and had to sit on the aisle for comfort and ease of movement - yet there she was, enthralled by the same adventure, good-looking characters and fantasy everyone else was. I think one of the best things about Pirates is the way it appeals to everyone, across the board. Why "grow up" and be all serious all the time? Life's too short and has enough sadness - I vote for silliness and joy and romance!

My concern though is that even with seeing the added scene at the end I still was confused as to whether Will was to stay or whether he had to go back to sea for another 10 years. Maybe I am the only one that was confused, but it wasn't until I read all the comments here did I understand his true fate. I'm afraid the audience that does not have the benefit of the whole explanation of the curse may be similarly confused which may add to dissapointment in the end of the movie.

No, Kim, you weren't the only one, by far! That seems to be a common criticism and one place where the film fails. It was when I saw how many online fans on an assortment of message boards across the web were similarly confused and I realized how many weren't seeing the final scene - that completed the hero's arc! - that I struggled to write some explanation. I wanted something to hand to my kids when they go to see it to make sure they have a better understanding . something they could read as they left if they were still puzzled. If my summary helps, please just pass it around.

There were some things wrong with it (like whose brilliant idea was it to put that vitally important closing scene after the bloody credits!!?) that I'll be happy to discuss, down the road, with anyone who wants to, but in spite of those things, it was a gloriously fun time and I want everyone to enjoy this movie as much as I did.

And yeah, there's probably some of that defensive stuff in my motives for our favorite pirate, who does seem to get some rough treatment and short-changing he doesn't deserve.

[Zarya]

This is the only movie I've ever seen where I want to watch it again before it's even over.

That being said, even after seeing it 4 times, I *still* gasp and sit in shock for a few minutes when that scene happens. I probably always will.

I went in the first time not having any idea what was going to happen. So it blindsided me.

I can easily see myself watching it at least 6 more times. Perhaps I'll watch it twice a week as long as it's in theaters. Ooh, I like that idea!

[Adrianne]

You know, I may be an old woman, but I am so in love with this movie. It was so entertaining, and I so needed the escape. And , of course, Will was brilliant. Keira, also. It broke my heart, but it was the right ending for all of them. I don't have all of the eloquence of everyone else, Geri, LadyNin, etc.,but it did satisify me. Ok, I am a freaky middle aged person. Hugs to you all.

Honey, you are not alone. I'm in love with the movie (I personally think it's the best of the three), I'm in love with Will and I'm in love with Orlando. I've seen Pirates III four times now and it won't be my last. I enjoyed every moment and though I would love to know what possessed the powers that be to put the 'Ten Years Later' scene after the credits instead of before the credits as it should have been, it is the most enjoyable time I've had at the movies in a long time. I'm going to dearly miss Captain William Turner.

Nin, I too saw many women my age and some much older eagerly taking their seats for this movie. It simply appeals to all ages, and all types of women.

[Welshwoman]

Here's another old lady chiming in. Tomorrow is my date with Will Turner & Co., and I am eagerly anticipating the movie. I've lurked, read, and appreciated all your comments. I succumbed to the spoilers a long time ago. And I'm very glad I did.

WW

[Patty]

MB53, I'm ready to sign on to your "old lady" manifesto! :cheers:

LadyNin, I can tell you spent some time and effort to write up your explanations. Thank-you so much.

I saw AWE for the first time yesterday, so I had not visited this thread until then. I had never had any doubt that Will was freed of the curse at the end, and I guess part of the reason is that I am familiar with the "Flying Dutchman" story. Since Elizabeth was there meeting him, I believed she had remained faithful. Then we saw the flash of green, which had been explained to us repeatedly, esp. by "Mr. Exposition", Gibbs. Then, we see Will in a white shirt.

But, when I began reading discussions and review threads, I realized how confused and upset many folks were! It was wonderful that you were able to jump in with your concise, well-written explanations.

Anyhow, I adored the movie, I'll see it several times in the theaters, and I wonder if MAYBE we'll get a "just a little bit extended" version for the DVD, given that this misunderstanding has arisen over Will's fate?

ETA: I see that several others have posted while I was noodling around here. Enjoy, Barbara. It's great!

[aliza]

I haven't read all your reviews yet, but I'm just back from (finally) seeing AWE for the first time and just wanted to jump in and say I LOVE this movie. It has all the elements and a tragically satisfying ending.

More later.

Aliza

PS: Forgot to add I really appreciated that Orlando was wet during most of his scenes. Whoever directed this movie had his finger on the pulse of ka-Bloom

[LadyNin]

LOL! It's 1:30 a.m. where I am as I write this . I have spent entirely too much of the past 5 days dwelling on the high seas and assorted ships and islands . but I was reading over some of Terry's blog on MySpace this evening and found this comment which answers a question raised earlier here .

File this under, 'Great Moments in Life': we arrive today at the Singapore set, and Kiera is moving a long boat through the water, lip-syncing a song. Blasting over the sound system is a playback of Keira's recording of "Hoist the Colors" . when the production needed a song, Ted and I wrote the lyrics, Gore Verbinski and Hans Zimmer worked out music and the arrangement, and here it is playing throughout the stage .

If anyone hasn't found this blog yet, it's a fascinating peek over the writer's shoulder throughout the making of these POTC films. There are several open entries on the topic worth visiting.

Gods, I love the Net . it makes research so easy! Here's a bit from Wikipedia on the Flying Dutchman curse from POTC .

...It is learned in the final chapter that the purpose of the Flying Dutchman is to ferry dead souls from the sea into the netherworld. The captain was picked by Calypso, goddess of the sea. He would be allowed to spend one day ashore with she who loves him dearly before taking up his responsibilities to ferry souls for ten years. His heart would be put in the Dead Man's Chest and given to his loved one while he would hold onto the key. After that, according to writers Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio, if he found his loved one waiting for him, he would be relieved of his responsibilities to live the rest of his life with his loved one, and Calypso would pick a new captain. If his loved one was no longer faithful or had disappeared after the first ten years, he would remain on the Flying Dutchman for eternity, being allowed ashore once every ten years, until he found his loved one or until his heart was taken and punctured.

The first captain that was picked by Calypso was Davy Jones. Jones' love was, coincidentally, Calypso, and on the day he could go ashore, she was nowhere to be found. He felt betrayed, so he summoned eight other pirate captains to the first Brethren Court and taught them how to bind Calypso in human form. Afterward, Jones gave up his duties to ferrying souls, and consequently became the monstrous looking being he is. He also resigned from the Brethren Court and passed his Piece of Eight to another pirate captain.

It is also learned that he who stabs the heart of the ship's current captain must put his own heart in the chest and become the new captain. Will Turner knows that the only way to save his father is by stabbing the heart of Davy Jones, but learns that if he does so, he will become the new captain, and will be unable to be with Elizabeth because of the duties that are required of him.

Will Turner will become the next Captain of the Dutchman after the end of the film. A picture of Will has surfaced with him at the helm of the ship, with a scar over his heart, due to his heart being taken out and put into the chest by the crew after he stabs Jones's heart.

When Davy Jones fatally wounds Will, Jack Sparrow knows the only way to save him is to have him stab the heart, which would result in Will becoming the new captain, and does so when Jones is occupied with "Bootstrap" avenging his son. Also this change of captains results in the entire crew reverting to their human forms and the ship transforming back to its original form as an ornate Dutch fluyt, which would presumably be for as long as the captain keeps his mission of ferrying the dead.

Well, that lines things up a bit better! Perhaps that bit about Calypso's curse - requiring the heart to go into a chest - is some of what was edited out. For my money they could have dropped the "Beckett floats down the steps in a whirlwind of wood chips" scene and half of the endless swordfight melees to include this tidbit of info. Hard to do without gobs of exposition, but it would have saved a lot of confusion and . who knows? . might have impacted their precious bottom line.

ETA- Followed the Will Turner link out of that article and found this .

At the end of the credits, Elizabeth is seen with her nine-year-old son, William III. He is nine and has never met his father, and eagerly stands on a cliff awaiting his arrival. A green flash of light (confirmed by the writers as being a sign of a soul returning to Earth) is seen as the Dutchman reappears, and Will is seen eagerly sailing to his family to spend his allotted day on land with them. It is unclear whether or not Elizabeth's fealty had any affect on Will's curse, but Ted and Terry, the two writers, have said that her patient and loving wait has freed him from the curse, and he never has to return to the Dutchman again. They have also confirmed that a scene explaining this has been deleted due to the movie's length.

And so we have yet another loss to the cutting room floor. :oh: So I guess we can take all this and make up a story that suits us best.

And now it's 2:30 a.m. and I'm for bed.

G'night!

[Welshwoman]

Nin, bless you! Thanks for the wealth of information you've provided. This will make my AWE-viewing much easier to comprehend. I'm sorry for the expository losses. I can't comment further until I've seen the film, which will occur this afternoon. AT LAST!!

Barbara

[SuzieKat]

Thanks Nin. Geesh, the movie was already so long , a couple extra minutes to make clear Will was free wouldn't have made much difference, but would have made us all very happy.

[Annabelle]

Awesome findings, Nin. This certainly fleshes out some of the confusing details, BUT IT ALL SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLEARER IN THE ACTUAL MOVIE ! :bat:

Imagine what a great movie it would have been had the mythology of the curse been focused on more, with more emphasis on Will's sacrafice (with Jack's too for the sake of Will), and with more explanation of how the curse could be lifted by the power of true love. In my mind I can see what a great movie it could have been -- it could have been a classic !

It seems Orlando has again been shortchanged when it comes to being in a movie that could have become a classic had it not been for the botched editing, etc. I'm thinking of KOH in particular -- a movie that was completely destroyed because of the editing -- one only has to watch the Director's Cut to appreciate what a great story that was and how badly it was damaged.

To me, POTC3 will be remembered mostly as Will and Elizabeth's story, Will's heroics to free his father, and the triumph of true love over the curse of Davy Jones's heart. Everything else should have been secondary.

[Maethoriel]

Thanks Nin, this information comes bittersweet. It's so good to know the truth behind the legend and what the story was getting at. It's sad that such an important clip was lost in editing and that most people will not realize what really happens at the end.

There were some big mistakes made about the final ending of this film, and while I love it (especially knowing now that Will is free) it could have been better and stronger. Anyway we could voice our desire for an extended version of the film that clears this up? I'd love for Disney to consider the idea.

I was also thinking about two unimportant, but curious things that I wanted to toss out to others.

When Will left Elizabeth to go back to the Dutchman, did he leave her on Shipwreck island? Is that where she spent her 10 years waiting for his return? Was this because she was the Pirate King (or Queen?)

Also, on a lighter note.after Jones was killed would the name of the Locker be changed to Will Turner's Locker?

PS: Forgot to add I really appreciated that Orlando was wet during most of his scenes. Whoever directed this movie had his finger on the pulse of ka-Bloom

Amen to that aliza! I was trying to count the number of Wet!Will scenes durning the movie, but it was all in vain as most of his scenes had him soaked.and gorgeous .

[Manatee633]

Also, on a lighter note.after Jones was killed would the name of the Locker be changed to Will Turner's Locker?

I was wondering this as well.

Also, now that Will is free to live with Elizabeth and their son, who becomes the captain of the Flying Dutchman? The article Nin posted said Calypso would choose a new captain but she is dead, right?

I saw AWE for the second time on Saturday night. I understood more this viewing because I knew what was going to happen at the end. My two favorite scenes are the wedding with that kiss and when Will drinks from the teacup.

~Mollie~