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The love scene at the end was about as sexy as any overt love scene I've ever read or viewed.

I had a similar thought, Adrianne! :hott:

Oh and when the Dutchmen comes up out of the Water that final time and then you see her captain turn around and it's Will. I had chills run all through me. The audience actually cheered!

A similar experience happened with the audience this afternoon, Adrianne. After the kiss after the marriage on the ship there were whoops of cheer and the same when the Dutchman and Captain Will Turner came up after the credits. People that had stayed to see the final ending actually stood up and clapped!

I too stopped people in the theater from leaving. I really want them to be satisfied with what happened to Will and Elizabeth!

I have to say that the second viewing is much better. I didn't have to worry about what was going to happen and could pay more attention to the dialogue and actions of the characters.

I have finally decided that the curse was indeed lifted when Will returns after 10 years as captain of the Flying Dutchman due to the fact that his and Elizabeth's love is true. As I've read ka-Bloomies' thinking and helpful explanations, it just seems to make the most reasonable sense.

It is most definitely a movie that has to be processed over multiple viewings. I also bought the soundtrack and have to say it's such brilliantly written compositions.quite epic and moving. Really love it.

I'm still like wow.I can't decide if I feel so melancholy due to the poignant ending or the fact that it will be the last movie of Orlando's for awhile. Perhaps it a bit of both.

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After my second viewing today, some observations I didn't really make until the second go (forgive me if I'm a little slow on the uptake):

The beginning of the film (and the purpose of the hangings) is much clearer to me now. Cutler Beckett bought into all of the mystical powers of the sea, and was as superstitious as he was keen to control everything within his grasp. He knew of a fabled pirate song, that when sung by many in unison, would cause a convening of the Brethren (the nine pirate lords). As we knew, it was in Beckett's own interest and that of the EITC to get all of them together in one place to stage an assault that would rid the world of all pirates once and for all. Only, I believe, he didn't know the song, so he couldn't stage the singing of it himself. He needed to coerce it from those who might know it (and who knew its meaning well enough not to dare sing it without good reason). What better way to do this than by declaring martial law and sending all who consorted with Pirates to the gallows? This is why he responded with "Finally," when told that they had begun to sing. The little boy who was hung had a piece of eight, but I think that was probably the only significance to his character. Some might speculate that he was kin to one of the pirate lords.

There were other moments of "OH! Now I get it" along the way, but I can't remember them all. :lol: Suffice it to say that this movie not only must be viewed at least two or three times before it can be fully appreciated and understood, it certainly deserves to be.

I also have to say that all of my concerns and angst have been put to rest, and I'm feeling that the story, indeed the entire trilogy was mostly about Will and his destiny. I might take a fair abundance of tomatoes for this, but Jack is mostly relegated to comic relief (and at times annoyingly so) in this third installment, while the story gets on with its original intent and purpose; to complete a classic Boy Meets Girl, Boy Loses Girl, Boy Gets Girl plot: A Boy found stranded in wreckage from a ship, by another ship carrying the Girl. Boy and Girl grow up, separated by social status–the tragedy of forbidden love that makes us yearn in our breasts for their love to flourish. Girl is kidnapped by evildoers, Boy goes after her and rescues her, proving his manliness and worth to her father. Tragedy strikes again when, before they can be wed, yet one more obstacle stands in their way. Boy must fulfill his destiny–a series of honorable acts before the denouement can be revealed. No other story line or character arc is as complete as that of Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann.

Jack Sparrow's character, for what I can see, only evolved into the commercial draw because of Johnny Depp's portrayal. Brilliantly original and generously acted, it became the focal point of the commercialization of the franchise, and earned "final shot" rights (which might explain why Will and Elizabeth's final scene was an Easter Egg shot after the credits). And who can blame the audience? He was hysterically funny, and often did the right thing when we least expected him to. All the pirate lore and fantasy, the vast array of subplots and supporting characters, and the action-packed scenes make for great filler with loads of excitement and suspense. But at the end of the day, and at the end of this trilogy of films, one guy takes his place as Captain of a great ship, restoring it to its intended glory and honorable charge, setting men free of bondage and sheparding those who have died at sea, and who gets the girl in the end; Captain William Turner.

Now that's one guy at whose mast I wouldn't mind serving. :devil:

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Thank you, Ces, for that explanation. I have to agree with what you put as it's from the writers themselves. I only wish they'd managed to explain it better in the film.

However the ending is interpreted, this is one tremendously satisfying film!

Beth 37

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That said - I can't remember being this upset after leaving a theatre. I cried nearly all the way home.

The cinematography and the effects were amazing. The acting was terrific all around - and I was particularly impressed with how far Orlando has come from that first scene in the hallway of Governor Swan's mansion. He's never been an OTT actor, it's more about subtlety. Watching his facial expressions was like reading a book.

But I am feeling so emotionally manipulated that I want to scream. I could list the 'offenses', but I think many will understand what I'm talking about. KLSMom explained some things to me (that she picked up at Wordplay); I'm certainly not stupid, you don't have to draw a complete picture for me - but a BIT more indication of what the 'ending' was really all about would have helped.

For me, the ending wasn't bittersweeet; it was devastating. I honestly don't know when, or if, I will see it again. :blow:

Jan I understand your reaction at being upset with the ending of the movie. I felt much the same way watching it the first time. To make matters worse about an hour before we left for the movie I got a distressing phone call from my daughter who had just broke up with her boyfriend so I really wasn't in an upbeat mood going into the movie. We also didn't stay for the ending credits because we got out so late and all had to be at work early Friday. To say the least it is an entirely different movie with the scene at the end of the creditts. I really feel it should have been part of the movie as a whole, not just an add-on scene at the end. The ending without it had the same effect for me as the end of Haven, which just devastated me and I still can't bring myself to watch that movie. I guess the idea of unrequited love and a life wasted is what got to me.

That said I saw the movie again today with my fellow Southeast Ka-bloomies and I had a totally different experience and reaction. I felt so much better about it in fact I absolutely loved it! As many have said it had brilliant storytelling, acting, action and special effects. I feel the last 45 minutes was some of the best moments in movie history. I do agree with the OTT violence, especially the hanging of the boy at the beginning. I couln't believe Disney would include this in a movie that is going to be seen by so many kids-that bothered me. I also thought the Jack Sparrow in Davy Jones Locker part was just plain weird. And what was with all the little alter ego Jack's??

Orlando's acting was pure perfection. I don't care what anyone says he stole this movie and was the absolute perfect movie hero. I am just so proud and happy for him. I think I will rest a few days and let my thoughts settle and go see it agian next week-and the week after that and.

Kim

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Geri, talk about being able to sum up a 3 hour movie - that was wonderful.

And this story was about Will. From the moment he's picked up to the final scene when he returns after 10 years, he's fulfilled his destiny.

We saw boy become a man and a man fight for the woman he loves. He said in COTBP that he was willing to die for her and so he did. The ultimate sacrifice. She repays him in full by staying true in her love for him.

Jack did what was best for Jack, excpet when that darn little thing called conscience got in the way! I would have liked to see a Will/Jack conversation at the end though.

Ces

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I was disappointed. :blow:

I wanted to love it. I hoped to love it. I actually do love the basic concept -- which I see as Will successfully reaching all his goals but paying the price for his understandable but dishonorable betrayal of his shipmates by being sentenced to ten years separation from his family.

If only it had been executed more effectively.

The key stories here, in my opinion, are those of Will and Elizabeth and of Will and Bootstrap. In order for these stories to work and for us to truly care about the fates of these three characters at the end of the movie, there has to be a proper buildup earlier on. But it doesn't happen. Instead of a focus on Will and Elizabeth and the grossly underused Bootstrap, we get pointless, isolated set pieces about Jack Sparrow that contribute nothing to the story. We get a child hanged in a Disney movie. We get endless harping on the uninteresting relationship between Squidface and Mumble-Jumbo (and by the way, we knew all along that she had to be Calypso; after all, she's the only other female character besides Elizabeth). We get distracting allusions to every other epic movie ever made (yes, we've all seen Return of the Jedi and Titanic and Troy and The Two Towers and the original Star Wars, and now, could we please get on with this movie?). We get a lot of nonsense about how piracy equals freedom -- an idea that really doesn't stand up to much scrutiny, especially when made the focus of a pre-battle speech that makes no sense at all. We get lots of expensive CGI and fancy scenery and loud noises and stupid monkey tricks and stuff blowing up and scenes of Jack Sparrow with his shirt off (despite the fact that Johnny wasn't really in good enough shape to be photographed that way), and we get nine Brethren all dressed up with nowhere to go and nothing in particular to do, and then when we come to the most emotionally intense sequence in the whole film, we get a quick cut to a stupid parachute scene that totally destroys the mood. Whose idea was that?

None of this is a criticism of Orlando. He did a fine job with what little he was given to work with. (And the leg scene -- oh my goodness! :hott: I was actually embarrassed to be watching that scene in a public place!) But the impact of his acting was muted, in my opinion, by the choices made by the writers and editors. :rant:

When filmmakers put together a truly effective movie that combines comedy and action and drama, they know when to turn off the jokes and the explosions and let the meaningful moments shine so that the audience can truly feel for and with the characters. The people who made Raiders of the Lost Ark got it right. So did the Pirates team, in the first movie of the trilogy. But this time around, it just didn't click, and I found that the only reason why I cared at all about the fates of the main characters was because Hans Zimmer's brilliant score was urging me to do so.

At World's End could have been -- and should have been -- so much more. It will probably earn a billion dollars, but it didn't capture my heart.

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Geri, talk about being able to sum up a 3 hour movie - that was wonderful.
I couldn't agree more Ces! Geri after reading your post I felt I should applaude you. :clap:

I got that part about Beckett and the singing later as well and it all started to click. And I'll join you in signing up for the crew. :wink:

And this story was about Will. From the moment he's picked up to the final scene when he returns after 10 years, he's fulfilled his destiny.

We saw boy become a man and a man fight for the woman he loves. He said in COTBP that he was willing to die for her and so he did. The ultimate sacrifice. She repays him in full by staying true in her love for him.

Ces thank you for the reminder that was Will's original promise. It's funny that after many, many viewings of the first 2 movies, I forget all these little things. :paperbag:
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Oooo, I'm loving all your comments and discussion! There's so much meat in this story (not that kind! -Naughty!) that people are all receiving it differently and that's fun!

. Consider what each of the characters wants, and what the end result is. With the recent gossip of Johnny returning as Jack Sparrow, his would be the only thread left unfinished. I think the writers did a very good job of establishing all these character arcs and completing them. I think Norrington's line about their lives being entwined, but never on the same course as being a huge theme in this movie.

YES! Somewhere in their board discussions, T&T reminded the readers that the compass' purpose was mis-directed in some of the advertising (so what else is new?). It doesn't show one's heart's desire - it shows what you WANT. Subtle but real difference. And I also recall a comment from one of them after DMC saying that in the first movie Elizabeth was the protagonist, the second was Jack's - what they both wanted - and that the third would be about Will. Elizabeth wanted Will and excitement in her dull life . Jack has always wanted the Pearl and his captaincy. and Will, along with wanting Elizabeth, wanted - pledged! - to free his father - it became his quest in DMC/AWE. All the other characters in the story fall into Norrington's description - entwined but never on course alike.

.Will didn't choose to become the Captain of the Dutchman. The choice was made for him. His hand was on the weapon that stabbed the heart, but Elizabeth's hand and Jack's hand were the ones controlling Will's hand. They realized it was the only way to save his life. They both understood the curse. And no doubt they knew about the "after 10 years come back to your true love and the curse is broken thing."

I thought I remembered seeing that - in my admitted state of shock at the moment. (I've still seen it just the once.) How cool. Will was really beyond making any decision at that point and was in the hands of those others who cared about him and his destiny. She wanted him to live - and Jack proved her right that he was a good man by giving the immortality to Will. Very cool.

I love the ending given to Will. Yes, it was bittersweet, but it proves how good and heroic and true he really is. Ruth (TF) and I have been discussing the culmination of his storyline for months and this is the ending we had talked about consistantly, that Will would become the Captain, not of 'The Pearl' but of the 'The Dutchman.' It's a good, strong, ending to his story.

I agree, Adrianne, and through all the angst, I felt that strongly right away. As I remember, I think it fell into place for me when Tia Dalma repeated her line about Will . he would be the one to fulfill that destiny.

The love scene at the end was about as sexy as any overt love scene I've ever read or viewed. And when Will tells Elizabeth to keep the chest safe because it (his heart) has always belonged to [her] anyway, just made my throat constrict and my chest ache. And that last kiss was swoon worthy.

Amen.

A brief note on love scenes . I am of the old school that sexy is not how hard and fast and wet you can simulate boinking onscreen, but in the sensuality of the performers. Orlando has already demonstrated that he can produce sexy in loads - whether his Mum and sis think he is or not! :lol:

Geri, no tomatoes from me! I think you have hit it on the head about Will's journey being the root of the story and I love the way you summarized it so neatly. I have always felt that Jack - brilliant and clever and funny as he was - was the comic relief to the other, hero's quest, aspect to the tale. I realize we all may have a slight prejudice, but Will turned out not to be just someone for Jack to bounce his lunacy off . he was the heart (yeah, pun intended) of the story. The two arcs together created a fullness to the tale - maybe that's even why it has struck such a note with the entire world. The balance of outrageous silliness against the challenging and solemn nobility of doing what's right and true and honorable in the face of evil . in a way that's what all of our lives are about.

...Cutler Beckett bought into all of the mystical powers of the sea' date=' and was as superstitious as he was keen to control everything within his grasp. He knew of a fabled pirate song, that when sung by many in unison, would cause a convening of the Brethren (the nine pirate lords). As we knew, it was in Beckett's own interest and that of the EITC to get all of them together in one place to stage an assault that would rid the world of all pirates once and for all. …. This is why he responded with "Finally," when told that they had begun to sing. [/quote']

I think you're right on with this . anyway, it has now become my official explanation. And it does soften the harshness of the opening and give it reason.

I think Disney knew what it was doing in making the leap to PG-13 with these films - both with the violence level and the sweetly sexy honeymoon and downright suck-face kisses. They've managed to make these films appeal to that wide audience that studios long for to rake in the bonzo bucks. Whaddya bet Will and Liz win the MTV "hottest kiss" award? :P On a serious note, I'm still wondering if some of the stuff in there will be too much for the smaller viewers. My daughter thinks her 5-year old would do okay - what with all the other stuff he watches with his big brothers and the way he distinguishes between real and pretend. Maybe so. With all the mayhem there's still not a drop of blood anywhere.

My judgement of a great movie has always been: if it makes me laugh, makes me cry, makes me think . then I love it. This one has done all three. I think we'll find ourselves having Pirates retrospectives when we sit down and watch - and connect - all of them together.

Thanks again for all your thoughts and vision. Makes it all more fun.

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They say that confession is good for the soul. Here goes. I have unabashedly read your reviews and discussion. I've not seen AWE and won't get there until next week. I'm really glad I will go into it armed with your observations and insights. I think what I've read here will increase my understanding and my subsequent enjoyment of the film. I won't budge until that last scene plays out . and I will see it a second time.

Thanks, ladies, for your wit and wisdom.

:hug::hug:

Barbara

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I'll keep it short and sweet. Loved it, want to see it again. Absolutely NO WAY I'd let a child under 10 see it. Apart from the violence (I'm sure I remember seeing blood), if the story can confuse us, how would a child understand? And the running time. There were a few young uns' in our audience and they were up and down the aisle to the toilet more times than I care to remember. And I can't believe how many people left as soon as the credits started. You'd think if they had watched the previous two properly, they would know to stay till the end. Plus it's just good manners. Those people helped make the movie you've just enjoyed, they deserve a little credit and respect. But that's just me.

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I just saw AWE this afternoon and have to say I enjoyed it thoroughly. I went to see AWE at a very large and busy mall in the suburbs. Given the time of day and the fact that this mall was full of shoppers, I was surprised to see that the theatre was packed.

The audience reactions were terrific! The audible sigh from the females when we first saw Will! The giggles and cheers when we first saw Jack. The laughter at many of the antics of the cast, Mr. Cotton's parrot, the monkey Jack and the gasps at the cinematography. Most people left while the credits were rolling but not without cheering, whooping and clapping in appreciation. I told the girls sitting beside me that maybe they should stay and see the "good bit" after the credit. Actually I felt like I had bullied them and they stayed. :lol: The "good bit" was magnificent and it really took my breath away. It's a definite MONEY SHOT indeed.

Ladies, I congratulate and thank many of you for your explanations of some of the intricacies of the plot. I particularly appreciate your explanation of the after credits scene. Before I read this, I had actually left the movie with a bit of a heavy heart. Now, of course, when I think back to the scene with Tia Dalma (Calypso) and Davy Jones, what many of you have said makes complete sense.

Yes, this movie does warrant multiple viewings and, I can't wait to see it again when maybe, just maybe, I won't focus entirely on Orlando. (FAT CHANCE)

:hug:

Charlie

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I've just come in from my second viewing of AWE (which, by the way was with several other Ka-Bloomies at a get-together in Atlanta), and since I've been away for two days I have had a lot of catching up here of all your terrific reviews -- so much so that I hardly know where to start on my own. :2thumbs:

I loved Orlando's performance in AWE -- so much more than in either of the first two movies. He demonstrated how much he had matured, as a man and as an actor. Will brought manly courage and unfailing determination in his efforts to achieve his goals: he saved his father from the doom of Davy Jones' servitude; he won Elizabeth's heart and devotion; and as Captain of the Flying Dutchman, he fulfilled his destiny by restoring it to it's ledgendary duty of carrying the dead to the other side.

Will was really beyond making any decision at that point and was in the hands of those others who cared about him and his destiny. She wanted him to live … and Jack proved her right that he was a good man by giving the immortality to Will. Very cool.

This was such a great scene in the movie -- Jack wanted to put the knife to Davy Jones' heart himself, so HE WOULD BECOME IMMORTAL, but when he saw brave and honorable Will dying, and Elizabeth's tears, the "good man" in him took over, and he "helped" Will stab the heart.

There are so many great moments in this movie -- indeed, it takes multiple viewings to fully appreciate the brilliant story that this third movies wraps up so neatly and impressibly. Impressive because this is not just a cleverly staged swordfight movie, but rather a morality play, that takes sea legends and pirate lore to a new high, makes you think, and then blows your mind with it's beauty. :O

Speaking of beauty -- Orlando overshadows everyone else in the second half of the movie, when he absolutely breaks through and shines in the quest to fulfill his destiny. It's so beautiful, it brings tears to my eyes -- this is the kind of powerful story that every movie should have ! :cheer:

If the movie has a fault, it's that the magnificent fulfillment of Will's destiny is not given enough screentime, and the details of the lifting of the curse were never clearly spelled out. They made a great movie -- but it could have been a classic if only they had gone more with the Will/Elizabeth/Destiny story. I suppose they chose to ride the "commercial" bandwagon, and I guess I can't blame them. Young people today can't sit still for a good thought-provoking story of honor and romance -- they need action, action and more action, or they lose interest. I'm sure that many viewers found all the CG effects, swordfights and wisecracks much to their liking and the movie will make tons of money -- but I would wish for more, much more of our morality play. There was so much more meat to the story there to be developed, and sadly never was, that I was left feeling hungry -- despite my large bucket of popcorn ! :lol:

Before I end this long post, I want to add a bit about the sword that Will made and which kept turning up. I think it ended up in Will's possession, and he joined it with Elizabeth's in an X on the beach when they had their "day". And I remember a line of Will's about only having one day, where he said "it depends on the day" ! And remember, his son was born out of that "day". Fantastic !

Well, I'll end now, tired but happy, and will be off to bed -- to dream of Will ! :hug:

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Well, here I am back again after my third viewing, because everytime I see it I see more, I think about it more and I remember more.

One of the things I have not mentioned before is Orlando's voice in this film. It's gorgeous! I know we all love his voice, but there is so much more depth to it than in the other two Pirate films. It's warmer and deeper (or am I crazy), and there is a calm confidence in it, elegance and grace. And when he speaks to Elizabeth there is a tenderness and a yearning that is palpable. When he says to his father, 'Then take the wheel, Mr Turner' there is something so poignant in his voice. It's soft with appreciation and acceptance of his father's willingness to pay the debt he owes Will. I'm not really expressing this well. I just loved his voice in this film.

Ruth and I just spent 2 hours on the phone discussing PoTC AWE, Will and Orlando's portrayal of Will. We agreed that it's going to be very, very hard to let go of Will. We've watched him grow up, from that sweet, almost self deprecating, love struck strippling to a noble, masterful, virile, man who is deeply, everlastingly in love with one woman. Ruth said the thing that she'll miss most about Will is his undeniable aura of masculinity. I couldn't agree more. He is essentially everything you want a man to be, in spades.

I also paid closer attention to Jack's reaction to Will's death. It was beautiful. When Will is run through with that sword the look on Jack's face is one of stunned horror. He really does care about Will and Elizabeth and I think he has always wanted their love to succeed. I also think that underlying all his interactions with both characters is a genuine respect and affection for both of them. Anyway, just a few more observations.

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Thank you so much ladies for all of your reviews and explanations. I think I was so excited when I left the theater that my review doesn't make much sense to me let alone anyone else. I just babbled. I'm still to see my second viewing but I'm sure I will be a lot calmer and enjoy it more - if that's possible! I think I focused so much on Will that the rest seems a bit blurry.

Thanks to Ladynin and Sherwood for detailed posts explaining the curse etc.

:hug: , Sam.

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Guest Brena

I saw it last night and I left the cinema with a big grin on my face. My friends where laughing at me. :lol: I kept babbling about the moving on our way back home and I came to the conclusion that I'll go to a second viewing. Maybe tonight. :cheer:

I want to thank you girls for the info to sit out the credits for the last scene. :hug: It was definitely worth it.

:clap:

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Ruth and I just spent 2 hours on the phone discussing PoTC AWE, Will and Orlando's portrayal of Will. We agreed that it's going to be very, very hard to let go of Will. We've watched him grow up, from that sweet, almost self deprecating, love struck strippling to a noble, masterful, virile, man who is deeply, everlastingly in love with one woman. Ruth said the thing that she'll miss most about Will is his undeniable aura of masculinity. I couldn't agree more. He is essentially everything you want a man to be, in spades.

Adrianne, I have to agree that I will miss the character of Will too. I don't think it really hit me until last evening that this was the last we'd see of Will and then it hit me hard. I too have enjoyed watching Will mature into the noble, brave and "virile" young man that he is.

And I have to say I've been coming in to read everyone's reactions and input and explanations, and as I posted last night, think I've finally peacefully resolved myself with the ending. I left the theater after the first showing with a heavy heart because I just couldn't get past the "forever" obligation. Therefore, reading all the ka-Bloomie's thoughts and explanations (with the help of T&T), I'll be going back for a third viewing today and just have the satisfaction of enjoying the picture with my heart resolved to the "destiny" of Will and Elizabeth. Again, the realization of the "a touch of destiny" finally hit me last night as well. I'd gotten so caught up emotionally with the ending, I'd hardly stopped to reflect on what "a touch of destiny" had finally meant. :doh:

*snort* I had this thought as well: As a reading specialist, I have to point out that this is truly comprehension at it's best.using the strategy of synthesis! Wonder if the staff would sit still long enough for me to use this as an example of when I "got it"! :lol:

So, I shall contribute once again to the box office earnings and finally go in to enjoy the movie in all it's glory without having to trouble myself over the ending. My husband said it just means I can devote the entire movie to drooling and not worry over how all the pieces finally come together! :teehee:

Lisa Q

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Well, here I am back again after my third viewing, because everytime I see it I see more, I think about it more and I remember more.

One of the things I have not mentioned before is Orlando's voice in this film. It's gorgeous! I know we all love his voice, but there is so much more depth to it than in the other two Pirate films. It's warmer and deeper (or am I crazy), and there is a calm confidence in it, elegance and grace. And when he speaks to Elizabeth there is a tenderness and a yearning that is palpable. When he says to his father, 'Then take the wheel, Mr Turner' there is something so poignant in his voice. It's soft with appreciation and acceptance of his father's willingness to pay the debt he owes Will. I'm not really expressing this well. I just loved his voice in this film.

Ruth and I just spent 2 hours on the phone discussing PoTC AWE, Will and Orlando's portrayal of Will. We agreed that it's going to be very, very hard to let go of Will. We've watched him grow up, from that sweet, almost self deprecating, love struck strippling to a noble, masterful, virile, man who is deeply, everlastingly in love with one woman. Ruth said the thing that she'll miss most about Will is his undeniable aura of masculinity. I couldn't agree more. He is essentially everything you want a man to be, in spades.

I also paid closer attention to Jack's reaction to Will's death. It was beautiful. When Will is run through with that sword the look on Jack's face is one of stunned horror. He really does care about Will and Elizabeth and I think he has always wanted their love to succeed. I also think that underlying all his interactions with both characters is a genuine respect and affection for both of them. Anyway, just a few more observations.

Adrianne, you just brought me to tears after reading your latest review! :blow: I also agree with everything you said here about Will and what you said about Jack's reaction to Will's death is what really did me in because I can see it all over again in my mind.

Well I can't wait to see this again next week. :cheer:

Kim

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I have to begin by confessing that I watched the film both times with a bias. I wanted the movie to be all Will, all the time. I knew I'd be disappointed. More about that later.

Visually the movie was a treat. I loved it every time the Dutchman breeched out of the water or surged ahead with supernatural momentum. I loved the still, starry sea they sailed through before going off the edge of the world.and the maelstrom. My favorite FX moment was the little stone crabs carrying the Pearl, especially where they take it over the the dune and out to the water. I think the imagery and the music there came together for a neat, very atmospheric little piece of cinema.

The acting was uniformly great from everyone. The prize for breakout performance has to got to Jack the Undead Monkey, (or the set of monkeys that played him), in my humble opinion. Keeping in mind that everything he did was a trained behavior -- for example, that bit where he lit the rocket--it was amazing, and he actually seemed to be playing against the parrot at times. If they give animal oscars he should get one.

Meanwhile, the humans were good, too. I had no doubt they would be-- it was a well-chosen cast.

But.

I realize that Ted and Terry had a lot of loose ends to tie up but I think they still committed what I've heard is one of the Great Don'ts in writing: Don't Clutter It Up. Whatever peripheral characters and side-details have come into the franchise, the central story is still: Jack wants the Pearl and his freedom; Will wants Elizabeth; Elizabeth wants Will. Everything else should have served that central storyline. I think they could have included Davy Jones' doomed love, Cutler Beckett's ambition and Norrington's moral dilemma and still kept things focused, but they burned up lots of time and audience attention on a lot of surperfluous stuff. For example: I like Pintel and Ragetti, but they got WAAAAY too much screen time. We didn't need to have their reaction to absolutely everything-- they were minor characters and should have been there about as much as Mr.Cotton. I know, P&R were big crowd-pleasers and that's why they got the extra screen time--- they still detracted from the central story. And did we really need a resolution to the fate of those two guys who were guarding the chest with the heart? This is screen time taken away from the real story and given to characters who are really there only for a bit of color. I also think it was a mistake to have the gimmick of everyone betraying everyone else. To do that a lot of extra stuff had to be added to the journey-- it did create some confusion about what was going on and again, it cluttered the picture needlessly. Finally, and here's where my above-mentioned bias comes into play, some people got really long scenes covering their "moments", while other more central scenes seemed much too short. For example, when they capsize the Pearl to get back to the living world, we get reams about Pintel and Ragetti tying themselves to the mast and just snippets of Will dislogded, sinking, and then apparently being the first to encounter the surface hurtling down/up at them. WHY?? He's a main character, the hero, in jeapardy, dammit! They didn't even really show how he saved himself! The scene between Tia Dalma/Calypso in her cell and Davy Jones was good and poignant, but I was left wondering why that scene was so long when the one with Will and Elizabeth in the hold was so short. Then there was Cutler Beckett's lovingly dragged out doom-and-dismay-amid-the-flying-CG-woodchips moment, which was undenyably spectacular but seemed to go on forever, meanwhile Will's death seemed much too short by comparison. Why didn't Will get to say anything to Elizabeth, even if it was only a little "I love you"? (Imagine how Orlando would have done it and what it would have done to the audience!) While I'm at it, why didn't we see more of Will's face in this scene? His screen time here was a collection of short glimpses, and half the time he was covered up by Elizabeth's hands or somebody/something in front of him. I have to insert here while I'm talking about short screen time and being covered up, there was some critic that accused Orlando of receding into the background in this film. I submit, based on the very thing I'm covering now, that where he seems to be in the background he didn't fade, he was pushed. But back to the real point. I could have done without the long goodbye for Elizabeth and the crew and had, instead, a long hello for her and Will on shore. After all, this is her first time to see him again since he died, his first time to see her. Now, finally they are really together. It's the moment they've been working for through the entire trilogy- and all we get is a very short snippet of the morning after? COME ON!

Hence my disappointment, even though I did enjoy the movie. I wanted more--of the right stuff.

On the issue of Will's death and his doom on the Dutchman-- I liked it. It was tragedy on an elvish scale. I wouldn't even have minded it if he had been tied to the Dutchman forever IF they had given that angle the proper attention and weight. It would have been a glorious piece of angsty stuff. But they didn't explore all the possibilites of what they did have, so for me it was just another bit of sadly missed potential.

As for the money shot, there is another that I like better. When Will is talking to Bootstrap and at one point looks off into the distance longingly, thinking of Elizabeth, his expression there speaks volumes and the light is fantastic. For me that's the money shot, for this film anyway.

Still, for me, nothing trumps the elf.

~TF

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I have to insert here while I'm talking about short screen time and being covered up, there was some critic that accused Orlando of receding into the background in this film. I submit, based on the very thing I'm covering now, that where he seems to be in the background he didn't fade, he was pushed.

Oh, yes, TithenFeredir. That's a big part of what bothered me. And not just because I'm a fan of Orlando's. If the writers had chosen to make something unrelated to Will the central climax of the story, then pushing him into the background might have been justified. But Will is central to the conclusion of the trilogy. Losing him in the crowd in the first half made no sense in terms of storytelling.

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But at the end of the day, and at the end of this trilogy of films, one guy takes his place as Captain of a great ship, restoring it to its intended glory and honorable charge, setting men free of bondage and sheparding those who have died at sea, and who gets the girl in the end; Captain William Turner.

Geri, your words along with those of others (Adrianne, LadyNin, Ces, Lianna, McJules, Annabelle and others) have helped me to "grieve." I love this movie beyond compare and to quote someone else on this board, it is a very "bittersweet" feeling I have. I go to bed and awake thinking about the character "of" Will and the resolution at the end of AWE and probably will for some time. I think causing a viewer to reflect on and really thingk about a movie is what makes some movies "exceptional." I think I can finally accept that Will is relieved of the curse at the end of the credits.

I want to add that I NEVER go see movies that have a "sad" ending if I know it ahead of time.because I always "hurt" afterwards. I do the same thing after reading novels or watching a TV show. It would have been a very difficult thing for me to go and see AWE if I had know in advance of Will's death. Yes, I'm sure I would have somehow gone anyway.afterall I have now seen AWE three times. I will as most of you, miss the idea of "another POTC," but I know we will always have the movies to watch over and over again and after a while the pain will go away, but never Captain William Turner!

Thanks again, Geri, you just don't know how much your words comfort me.

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I'm going to just throw this out there - is it me or did Jack call Barbossa "Hector" when they met in Davy Jones's locker? :blink: If so, why? Is that really his first name or was Jack alluding to some kind of TROY bit? Someone did mention references to other movies.

Also, probably a dumb question - who was the fourth person that tried to kill Jack in the "Four of you have tried to kill me in the past." scene? Barbossa, Will, Elizabeth. who else? Sao Feng wasn't there, was he? Tia Dalma? Why do I feel like this should be obvious and I should know it?

I decided this morning I'm going for my third time tomorrow. I just can't seem to get enough of Captain Turner. :giveup:

Christa

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Thank you all for your wonderful insights into this story. I am glad that most of you enjoyed it.

I was a bit apprehensive after reading the BBC TV Ceefax review of the film. It began with

Quote Dead Man's Chest was a damp squib enlivened by a giant squid - and At World's End clunks

like a rusty anchor Unquote and finishes with Quote Unfortunately, it's less At World's End than

When Will It End? Unquote. And the bits in between are not worth mentioning.

I think the reviewer must think he/she is a comedian. But then I should remember I have never read

a review by them that has ever said any good of a film with Orlando in, including Lord of the Rings.

I thank you again because I will not be able to see it until I get the DVD in December, and I think the

suspense would have killed me before then. So now I know what it's about and I will understand it

better and be prepared for the sad bits.

Alls well that ends well . (Didn't Sam's Dad say that in The Return of the King - the book.)

Anyway I will keep coming back to the thread to get more of your insights.

Take care

Wendy

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I'm going to just throw this out there - is it me or did Jack call Barbossa "Hector" when they met in Davy Jones's locker? :blink: If so, why? Is that really his first name or was Jack alluding to some kind of TROY bit? Someone did mention references to other movies. Christa

It's not you, I heard that too! But I can't think if I'd read it before I saw the film or if it's mentioned earlier in the film. :beatsme:

Tee hee, Hector! Gotta wait a week or so for another viewing, but I'm sure an in the know ka-Bloomie will clear it up.

Sam

ETA: I can't think who the 4th person to try killing Jack is? I can't picture who is in the scene with him. I'm sure when someone points it out we'll be thinking DOH!

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I have only seen the movie once and I won't be able to see it again until next weekend. I am still thinking a lot about it; it is staying with me and doesn't seem to want to let me go.

I thought that all the performances, especially that of our O were outstanding. He was absolutely marvellous throughout; I was just so impressed with him on all levels. I thought that Keira was terrific too, also Geoffrey Rush - isn't he a brilliant man?! The effects and just the look of the movie itself were breathtaking at times. I also really liked the costumes, especially Will's as Captain of the Flying Dutchman.

In terms of the movie itself, as others have noted, there were a lot of distractions that took away from the movie as a whole. It's OK to come away with a few questions, but I feel right now, like I have a whole boatload. Although the multiple Jacks had its moments of humour, for the most part, I found it unnecessary; it felt almost "matrixy" to me and that's not one of my most favourite movies. I did love the wedding ("I'm a little busy, right now!" :lol: ) and the beginning at Sao Feng's place - I loved how that was orchestrated.

I found the hangings, especially of the young boy, extremely disturbing. Overall, I felt that the movie was missing a lot of the light touch that made the first two so funny and enjoyable. I felt saddened that Governor Swann and James Norrington died (Norrington is my daughter's favourite character, so she is completely devastated). The last scene left me with the impression that Will was coming home to Elizabeth and his son for his one day's leave and I left the theatre feeling overwhelmingly sad about their fate. I felt grieved for all three characters. I had to read in this thread to find out that he was actually coming home to them for good. Figuring it out after the fact, has taken away from it's impact; I don't seem able to shake this feeling of sadness about the end.

Thanks everyone for posting your insights; it has helped me clarify a lot. I still look forward to seeing it again to try to reframe it for myself.

Jules

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