Did star take Bloom off 'Kingdom'?

[serendipity]

I'm not sure where to jump in on this discussion other than to agree with those that say he has to get past the teen heart throb status. Taking roles in movies dealing with adult material such as KOH is one way to get there. They don't have to be rated R but they do need more to think about than "will he kiss the girl at the end?".

[Guest JayDK]

I think the fact of the matter is, box office does matter when it comes to Orlando getting jobs in Hollywood. I hope that Orlando's first consideration is always the quality of the project and the challenge it involves, and I think he's obviously someone who knows how to pick good films -- just look at his track record. I've been very impressed by the fact that whether his roles have been in big movies or smaller films, Orlando always seems to be trying to challenge himself, to work in a new way.

However, Orlando is someone who is working within the Hollywood system. And within the Hollywood system, box office counts. I for one am really hoping that Elizabethtown gets that PG-13 rating, so that more of Orlando's teen fan base (assuming they are out there) will be able to attend. If Orlando's films make money at the box office, Orlando gets more opportunities to make films in interesting roles. I don't think that box office should ever be the first or only consideration -- that's how a lot of bad, bad films get made. But I don't think Orlando would ever do that, actually. I have a lot of faith in his ability to choose good roles, whatever the rating. Being able to show some box office muscle, especially in the face of negative criticism, would only be a good thing IMO.

[Suzie]

UGH! Have these two men been living in a cave or something? :huh: And where in the world did they get the info that Russell was Ridley's first choice? Wasn't Paul Bettany doing auditions for this role, together with Orlando, and it was Orlando who got the role? ( Please correct me if I am wrong ). These two seriously need to do some research. And as for Orlando's fans being mostly screaming 16 year-olds. I would like these two men to visit this forum and see what the age average is. I am almost 29 ( there you have it, Mr. John and Amir ), FAR from being a 16 year-old. And I have a feeling Orlando's fanbase is changing. He might have started as out as a teen-idol, but now he is gradually starting to reach wider audience. I sort of felt it while watching the second viewing of KOH. And Lianna, please don't take offense, but I completely disagree with you about Orlando accepting only PG or PG 13 rated films. Where would his career go? I am sure Orlando has turned down tons and tons of those kinds of roles for more meaningful and challenging works. Should Orlando accept roles in movies such as Dude, Where's My Car? or Scooby Doo? Now, that's what I call sure career disaster/suicide. Where is Freddie Prinze Jr. now? And I also disagree with you saying KOH is double failure. It might not be doing well here in US, but it did get positive reviews ( some VERY positive), and also demonstrated Orlando CAN carry a film. And it is doing well overseas. It isn't a failure. It did serve its purpose. Granted, Orlando may now have a "less-than blockbuster" film in his resume, but every actor does. Even Tom Cruise. He was in slump for a while. And what about Brad Pitt? His Troy didn't do well either. This article was written only to tear Orlando down. If anything, KOH will help Orlando break out from his "heart throb " status, and make people realize he is now a MATURE actor, way past being a teen idol.

[Mary]

Hear hear Suzie! I couldn't agree with you more! Just because it isn't doing too well in the U.S. shouldn't mark it a 'failure'. Just hope people are telling Orlando that, I hate to think that he is hurting over this in any way.

Mary

[TithenFeredir]

Articles like this are upsetting to me mostly because of the negative stereotype it perpetuates about Orlando and his supposed fan demographic. I wish there was some way we grown up women could make our presence known. I wish even more we could get the news out that our reasons for wanting to see him go so far beyond that stupid word "hot" as to make it irrelevant.

What has occurred to me lately is that we may be working ourselves into a tizzy needlessly about the boxoffice for this film. KOH was #1 in the U.S. in it's first weekend. A whole lot of other movies were not. The people associated with those other films will probably work again; some of them are big stars or will be big stars. People associated with huge flops also go on and do OK. As much as I would love for everything Orlando does to be a giant success, it's probably unrealistic to expect all of his films to be blockbusters. Maybe I'm being naive about this. I think that if you look at almost any successful star's resume you will find a few films that didn't do well. And KOH isn't a flop, it's a disappointment, aparently.

The thing that bugs me about KOH and Troy is to see a director use Orlando to suit his own purpose with negative consequences for Oralndo. In both cases the directors' decisions were not good ones. In the case of Troy, Paris should have been presented as the arrogant, selfish jerk he was in the original story rather than a wimpy romantic, and the audience should have been given the pleasure of seeing him get the bad end he deserved. In trying to make Paris sympathetic the director made a huge mistake and Orlando paid for it. Lots of people hated Paris, and therefore hated Orlando. In KOH Balian's motivation and character development were sacrificed to make more room for the big battles and the politics in my opinion. I think the audience might have been OK sitting for 30 minutes longer if Balian's story had been more clear. I just hope that the character development is restored in the DVD along with some other good parts that were cut, like the fight with Guy.

We've looked forward to the last two film anticipating that they would get Orlando the respect we think he deserves and we've been disappointed-- not because of Orlando's performances but because of what was done with them. Now I find myself looking forward again and hoping Cameron doesn't let him down as well.

TF

:paperbag:

[Ejderha]

Russel Crowe !? Godfrey's son !? In that senerio? In that Plot? Erm. if I am right -hopefully I am- Ridley Scott never make this kind of casting mistakes. I like Crowe, but he just not fits this role. He is soo, I don't know, grown up? And already built ?

The most irritating thing in this article is that the air or attitude that Orlando had these roles, including Legolas, against directors/producers -or I don't know somebody's- will, like he sneaked in. Or that it wasn't expected that he had this support.

"Sorry lad, they casted you in a lot of great projects but we didn't expect you to be that loved"

This is so crap. I mean, you do a disney, you cast Depp&Bloom, you make a very entertaining movie, then somebody reports something like; biggest % of the viewers were females, they were between the age this and that.

"Ooooh those females, females ! Those devils, aliens, how do they dare? They have seen it all ! Countless of times !" IS THAT SOME SIGN SHOWING THAT A MOVIE/ACTOR smells like lilacs in the springtime !? Who the they're kidding, really.

Put it aside that it was the whole plan, do they really 'critisize' the other movies designed to make young/old males melt !? "Hmmm this one does not count, 80 % of the viewers were young males "!? For example, so the whole war movies suck !?

And another irritating part is that PJ'S fantastic job with the greatest epic, called by the greatest directors of Holywood as "CANNOT BE MADE IN A MOVIE" is being lessened to what? The whole planet has seen this movie because of Legolas!? ( I believe Mr. Bloom or any cast member put in this place would dislike the comment more) And who is making these polls! In my country almost every young person have seen it, more than once ( there are 75 million people in here and 80 % can be considered as young !) followed the whole thing, we didn't hear or joined any polls recording our motives/genders. It wasn't needed. It was Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, people had waited for this movie for years. Now The Two Towers' , success and the whole LotR fandom has just stuck into your istatistics !?

Sorry fellow Ka-Bloomies ! I am sick of reading stuff bashing this man on nothing solid. I should get out of here, fast.

[Guest Cl@re]

Should Orlando accept roles in movies such as Dude, Where's My Car? or Scooby Doo?

at that thought.

It took years for Leonardo Di Caprio to shrug off his teen hearthrob status to be looked at as a credible actor. When really all they had to do was take a look at his performance in 'What's Eating Gilbert Grape' to see a talent was there as well as what some people considered a pretty face.

I guess we'll just have to be patient until Orlando's time comes so we can say, "Well, duh! We knew ages ago!" .

[Krissy]

We've looked forward to the last two film anticipating that they would get Orlando the respect we think he deserves and we've been disappointed-- not because of Orlando's performances but because of what was done with them. Now I find myself looking forward again and hoping Cameron doesn't let him down as well.

TF

:paperbag:

My money's on Cameron Crowe. I would love to know what HE thinks of KOH.

You're right, TF. Tempest in a teapot comes to mind. Actors survive disappointments every day. It stings, but it doesn't mean the film or performance was bad; only that it didn't live up to someone's probably inflated expectations. Orlando has always known that one day these people would be taking pot shots at him. Hopefully he's ignoring it all (or talking it over with Johnny- how many 'disappointments' has HE been in?) Bottom line, Orlando knows he has fans who won't be swayed by this sort of 'journalism' because it's obvious where it comes from. These writers only expose their own ignorance going on the way they do.

Krissy

[Guest Bog Iris]

The thing that bugs me about KOH and Troy is to see a director use Orlando to suit his own purpose with negative consequences for Oralndo.

Couldn't agree more, TF. In my opinion Orlando ought to rethink this "I'm a director's actor" line he's been laying on the press lately and understand that directors aren't often the actor's best friend.

In KOH Balian's motivation and character development were sacrificed to make more room for the big battles and the politics in my opinion

Obviously, the director wants what HE (or she) wants, not what the actor wants. KoH is a case in point for just the reasons you cited. I'm sure the DVD will fill in those blanks, but too late. The praise will accrue to Sir Ridley, not necessarily to Orlando.

[Lianna]

And Lianna, please don't take offense, but I completely disagree with you about Orlando accepting only PG or PG 13 rated films.

I'm not offended. It's interesting to read different people's views; that's why I come here.

Besides, I'm the mother of two teenagers. I don't offend easily. :wink:

[Donna]

I don't see how they can blame Orlando for the fact that a large part of the genre's target adult male audience didn't go to see it. Most men I am acquainted with have no idea who Orlando is. So I don't see how they could have been turned off by his being the lead. I feel more inclined to agree with other articles saying people, in the U.S. anyway, are not interested in the topic of the film right now. And the genre is not so popular in the U.S. either at this time.

It is true that being rated R seems to have largely eliminated the teens here (not one teen girl in the audience when I've gone), but that is only part of the deal. There are lots of factors, in my opinion. Ridiculous to make it sound like it's the casting of Orlando only. A bunch of .

[Dairwendan]

No, no, no, no, no! These damn reporters are so LAZY! Ridley Scott originally wanted to do a movie called 'Knight' just as a concept. That evolved into a project called 'Crusade' for which he was considering Russell Crowe. But by the time he actually got the script from William Monahan for 'Kingdom of Heaven', Russell Crowe was NO LONGER INVOLVED! Scott did auditions for KOH and Orlando won the part!

JEEZ! And these guys actually get PAID for this kind of half-assed work! You can imagine how much credibility I put into the rest of the article!

Dairwendan

[Suzie]

Dair, thank you for that info! You always provide us with great insights and information. These so-called reporters are making a fool out of themselves with articles like these. Too bad. And this was in Wall Street Journal? :oh: Duh. I don't see anyone rushing to that paper to get an in-depth review about a movie.

[Maethoriel]

What has occurred to me lately is that we may be working ourselves into a tizzy needlessly about the boxoffice for this film. KOH was #1 in the U.S. in it's first weekend. A whole lot of other movies were not. The people associated with those other films will probably work again; some of them are big stars or will be big stars. People associated with huge flops also go on and do OK. As much as I would love for everything Orlando does to be a giant success, it's probably unrealistic to expect all of his films to be blockbusters. Maybe I'm being naive about this. I think that if you look at almost any successful star's resume you will find a few films that didn't do well. And KOH isn't a flop, it's a disappointment, aparently.

  The thing that bugs me about KOH and Troy is to see a director use Orlando to suit his own purpose with negative consequences for Oralndo. In both cases the directors' decisions were not good ones. In the case of Troy, Paris should have been presented as the arrogant, selfish jerk he was in the original story rather than a wimpy romantic, and the audience should have been given the pleasure of seeing him get the bad end he deserved. In trying to make Paris sympathetic the director made a huge mistake and Orlando paid for it. Lots of people hated Paris, and therefore hated Orlando. In KOH Balian's motivation and character development were sacrificed to make more room for the big battles and the politics in my opinion. I think the audience might have been OK sitting for 30 minutes longer if Balian's story had been more clear. I just hope that the character development is restored in the DVD along with some other good parts that were cut, like the fight with Guy.

  We've looked forward to the last two film anticipating that they would get Orlando the respect we think he deserves and we've been disappointed-- not because of Orlando's performances but because of what was done with them. Now I find myself looking forward again and hoping Cameron doesn't let him down as well.

TF

:paperbag:

TF, you said it perfectly. As I see it, Orlando was just doing what he was expected to do for his character. One of my biggest Troy peeves are those comments about how bad Orlando did as Paris, it wasn't Orlando, it was the character of Paris that was portrayed that way. Orlando was simply giving the director the performance he wanted.

It's the same case here. I think Orlando did wonderfully as Balian. It was simply director choices that made the movie suffer and made Orlando look not so good.

I also find it quite interesting how the promotional pre-release stuff was praising focus on "movie by Ridley Scott, director of Gladiator" and now that it doesn't do as well as expected, it's Orlando's fault? Am I the only one that finds that a bit off?

I cannot say much about the teenage fan base seeing as I have just recently graduated that age bracket, but I am far from a teeny-bopper chick going to the movie just to see that 'hot hottie Orlando'.

I just worry that because he was first connected with such successes as Lord of the Rings and Pirates that critics now feel all his movies should be such blockbuster hits. Highly unrealistic.

I just hope that reviews like this do not disappoint Orlando. He has so much pride for this movie, and it was clear he wanted it to be a great film (just read the Rolling Stone interview.) I hope it does not get him too down. Dear Orlando, we will always know how much care you put into your films. Your true fans will always be there to support you even if the ignorant critics are not.

[jamminn]

OK.. now let me get this straight: this movie opened as number 1 in most of it's venues, yes? And in a lot of places the so-called 'teen base' supporters were not permitted to see the film (without an adult or whatever), so who the heck do you suppose made the film get to it's #1 spot?? I'm close to 50, and I took an over 50 male friend to see this movie and we both really enjoyed it. He knew who Orlando was after he saw him and was very impressed with his performance. Now, I knew when I asked him, that he was a very intelligent and open minded person, who would be educated enough to understand a poorly edited film, but still he did enjoy it. Certainly not a teenage girl there! My muddled point here is this: Orlando can and did star in a film that got noticed, despite poor and idiotic reviews, and without his 'main' fan base.

If anything, I think this could be a very good learning experience for Orlando, and I sincerely hope he doesn't decide that he should only so pg 13 movies to keep his 'obvious' fan base. He's got the talent to do something more. Now maybe he will have to go back to being a costar while he gets some grittier roles and notices by critics, but eventually he will be recognized and respected.

As we've discussed elsewhere and even the critics have acknowled, the box office has continued its sinking trend, and this has nothing to do with Orlando Bloom starring in his first major epic. He's not responsible for the trend, but is an unfortunate victim of it. I note that not too many of the critics have taken that into account, which is very unfortunate.

He has more movies coming down the pike with possibilities of being successful, but I don't think any of these are going to get him a different fan base or improve him much in the eyes of these critics who just seem to hate him so much. The Pirate sequels will not have him as a star and won't likely require anything new from him, actingwise anyway. As for Elizabethtown, this is not a 'guys' type movie, in fact if it weren't for Orlando, I wouldn't be going to see it. I don't care for this genre at all, but I will watch it and I truly hope that at least some of the critics will be impressed. What I think Orlando really needs, is as someone has suggested, something very dark and tortured: something to get the male demographic on his side and to impress the critics to look beyond that beautiful face. I hope he has the courage and chance to try it. Hopefully Johnny is giving him some advice on how to break out of the 'pretty boy' mold and Orlando follows it. What I saw in KOH really showed me that Orlando has the 'goods', he just needs the chance to mature and learn and act. I'm willing to wait, and I hope Hollywood is too.

San

[Gina]

Despite a 1900+-member forum of mature fans :wink: , it is a reality that Orlando is a teenage heart throb, and the majority of his fanbase is technically locked out of seeing this movie. Business analysts are fair in their questioning why he was chosen to drive this particular vehicle.

I honestly don't see how this article is blaming Orlando for the percieved less-than-stellar returns on KOH. No where do these gentlemen say he failed to deliver what was asked from him. Their point is that the whole movie failed to deliver at the box office and they are tossing around the reasons why. Keep in mind that the WSJ is published primarily for investors and business so this article is NOT meant to be a critical review of the movie or performances.

[BigBird]

This article strikes me as a fine example of lazy journalism from the 'quick and dirty' school. Editor to journos - "Give me six column inches on why the box office is so low at the moment. There's a new epic out that's not going so well, have a look at that."

All the writers needed to do was spend half an hour (if that) on the Internet, gather together a few of the cliches that are out there (teen idol, teenybopper fan base, pretty boy, etc.) and mix it with some of the other mixed up stuff (like "Tripoli", which was going to star Crowe and which has been postponed, so KOH got made before it) and viola you have an article fit for a paper being read by serious business people who wouldn't know an elf from a dwarf, even if they were hit on the head by a wizard's staff.

Of course it's a very different thing for us here in the wonderful world of fandom. We are far, far more knowledgable about our subject than is probably good for us, and tend to see every article that is not glowing praise as being designed to cut the ground out from under the object of our devotion.

I seriously doubt that the average reader of this piece will really take any notice of it. As Gina pointed out, this article is aimed at business folk, investors, not the general public.

[squiggles]

What bugs me the most I think, is the illogic and prejudice that are rampant in the media, and not just about Orlando. I heard the same comments before Troy came out as were heard before Kingdom of Heaven - Orlando was hired for his popularity, not his talent. I knew that was ridiculous, because I know that, while not all of his fans are young girls, the bulk of his fan base is young teens and children. If I knew that, you can be sure the bean counters and Hollywood bigwigs knew that. You don't hire a guy with an adolescent fan base for an R movie because you think he'll put bums in the seats. If you do, you're a moron.

The Russell Crowe thing bothers me, too. "Gladiator" is what *made* Russell Crowe "Russell Crowe". Nobody knew who he was before that. Nobody went in with a preconceived notion about him. This movie was billed as a "Ridley Scott" movie, not as an "Orlando Bloom" movie. Ridley's name and reputation was supposed to be enough to get people to want to see it. Ridley doesn't usually cast big stars - his movies tend to make people big stars.

The main reason why the movie failed is simple: it's not cool. Unlike POTC, it's not such a visceral experience. You don't come out of the movie feeling thrilled and ready to go back in and take the ride again. Young men (the target audience for violent action films) don't get a vicarious thrill from watching KOH. The violence isn't stylized and glamorous. Balian doesn't smirk and sneer and crack one liners when he kills someone. He doesn't have an attitude. He doesn't stand on the tower and pound his chest a la King Kong. He's quiet, thoughtful, deliberate, soft-spoken, humble. how boring - at least to the immature males of all ages who thought this was going to be "Gladiator II".

I just hope when the dust clears people will look at the movie more objectively. The movie is good. Orlando's performance is good. The message of the movie is good. It was just the wrong movie for the wrong time and it was sold wrong.

~squiggles

[Suzie]

I also find it quite interesting how the promotional pre-release stuff was praising focus on "movie by Ridley Scott, director of Gladiator" and now that it doesn't do as well as expected, it's Orlando's fault? Am I the only one that finds that a bit off?

[ VERY sarcastic mode ] Of course, we can't blame the great Sir Ridley Scott, right? No, no, no. It is that young Brit's fault. What's his name? Oh yeah, Orlando Bloom, who can't even open a film unless it's PG or PG 13. [ End VERY sarcastic mode ]

It's alway easy to put the blame on a young and relatively newcomer like Orlando, especially when there are people who are just waiting for him to fail. But honestly, I am far from thinking this film is a failure. I think it will eventually receive the appreciation it deserves.

:crusader:

I believe!

[Wishfulthinkin]

I'm shocked and saddened by this article.

But saying thus, I am forever glad it's posted here, so that anyone with half a brain can come and see what Orlando's fan's REALLY think.

Articles like this make me so mad!

Jealousy is a terrible, terrible thing, especially when it means slating one of the most incredible people through it. It's a shame that they believe Orlando to be such a " pretty boy" ,when it is they who wish to do the playground whisperings.

36% of the audience for POTC being teenagers?

[sarcasm]OH.MY.GOD! I can't BELIEVE that! Teenagers going to a disney film?[/sarcasm] Besides what were the other 64%? Monkey's? ( Well that Jack the monkey is very cute. )

I must add however, I'm ashamed right now to be a teenager.I'm 17, those 2 girls are one year younger than me, and their vocabulary seems very limited to me, " Yeah he's hot." " Really hot." :huh: Correct me if i'm wrong but I'm sure everyone can tell that for themselves? It saddens me that they really believe they can paint all teenagers with that same brush. A little diction is not too much to ask!

I'm going to stop before i get too angry. It just bother's me that they always want to use him as an item for teenager's walls when we all know, he's so much more, and his fanbase is SO much wider and diverse.

As for the Russell Crowe comment. I'd LOVE to see him try to be a boy-turned-man.

You were perfect for the part Orlando! You can take them! We'll give you the sword, you can "really deal some damage"! :wink:

x Claire

[Krissy]

Claire, your post made me cry. Now I'm even gladder that you were the one chosen to meet Orlando in London. You prove to everyone that being between the ages of 12 and 20 doesn't automatically make you a gibbering idiot. You have no reason to be ashamed because of your age. You put the lie to those who only see the "Jessicas" of the world. You're a lovely, intelligent and sweet young woman. Orlando is lucky to have fans like you who understand and appreciate him.

Krissy

[Suzie]

Claire, your post made me cry. Now I'm even gladder that you were the one chosen to meet Orlando in London. You prove to everyone that being between the ages of 12 and 20 doesn't automatically make you a gibbering idiot. You have no reason to be ashamed because of your age. You put the lie to those who only see the "Jessicas" of the world. You're a lovely, intelligent and sweet young woman. Orlando is lucky to have fans like you who understand and appreciate him.

Krissy

I will second that, Claire. I admire you for the way you handled your CEOK and that precious letter from Orlando. And am glad you are a Ka-Bloomie.

[Gonedeaf]

I'd also like to butt in here, being 18 myself and having had a CEOK yet not resorting myself to the immature rantings and mannerisms of some of his younger fans which aren't exactly helping Orlando's reputation!

As for the criticisms of Orlando and the apparent failure of Kingdom of Heaven, I think it is just ignorant people who are going in with pre-concieved ideas and don't allow themselves to watch the film in the right frame of mind to accept Balian as a character and Orlando's talent as a performer.

I do however, agree greatly with TF's comments about directors abusing Orlando's involvement on their production, and not giving him what he fully deserves and requires to establish himself and escape from the media pre-conceived and unfair attitudes.

At the end of the day though, Orlando on TRL UK saying that it is his fans who help get him opportunities and help to make him a success shows the guy has his head in the right place, and I have yet to find a fan of his who has not been extremely impressed and convinced by his performance as Balian. I think we should get together some sort of mass fan support book in honour of his achievement in Kingdom of Heaven, particularly if he has been hurt by some of the critics reactions (he says he doesn't read them but he just HAS to have some knowledge of the reaction). Of course nothing patronising like 'Oh well never mind that the movie was labelled a disappointment, but we still love you anyway', just to show our support en-mass.

That, and we also just need to hold out until he agrees to star in the film I am writing called 'Stranger of Reflection' - I have written the principle character with Orlando in mind as something the likes of which he has never done. Don't worry, I'm not being naive and stupid, just having my fantasy.

[Ams]

It makes me really sad that so many people just like him because of his looks, of course he's a good looking guy but it seems to me as people are only going to the cinema to see pretty people on screen. :eedgit:

Hardly anybody cares about the talent anymore. And let me say this, Orlando is very talented. I can't imagine Crowe as Balian, sorry but no. Orlando is perfect for this role.

I only hope Orlando doesn't read the crap these guys wrote. It might be true that most people like him because he looks good but still, not all fans do. He's a very good actor and I hope someday people will see him as that and not only as a hot, cute looking boy!

Ann

PS: Orlando, don't listen to what these guys are saying, they have no idea!

[Dairwendan]

The Russell Crowe thing bothers me, too. "Gladiator" is what *made* Russell Crowe "Russell Crowe". Nobody knew who he was before that. Nobody went in with a preconceived notion about him.

The Russell Crowe thing REALLY bothers me too. I think it's a given that Russell Crowe could NOT have played this part. This part required a sense of innocence and quiet. Balian is not the man who is going to go in there and clean up Jerusalem! The critics who think Russell Crowe would have been better in the part weren't watching the movie.

In fact, I've devised a little game with this on another board. Take a negative review and remove all of the references to Gladiator, Russell Crowe or Maximus and see if they said anything about the movie other than, 'It wasn't Gladiator'. Excuse me for resorting to this but, DUH! If you'd read the marquee correctly before you entered the theatre you would have realized that.

Another thing that bothers me is the comparison between Russell Crowe and Orlando as actors or as one reviewer puts it 'personalities'.

Russell Crowe was 36 when he did Gladiator. It was his 20th movie, and that's not counting two TV series. The first I'd heard of him was in L.A. Confidential (His 15th movie) in 1997 but I didn't hear anything about him again until Gladiator in 2000. He was in The Insider just before Gladiator - did he create any buzz with his 'big personality' and his 'command of the screen' there?

Orlando is 28. KOH is his 11th movie. 5 of those have been acknowledged blockbusters. 7 have been films for major studios.

Russell Crowe's 11th movie was The Quick and the Dead. He was 31. Who remembers him in that?

There is certainly nothing wrong with Russell Crowe's performances or his career, but to compare him and Orlando just because they've both been leads in Ridley Scott historical epics is ridiculous.

Why not compare him with Gérard Depardieu in 1492:Conquest of Paradise? Oh right, no one remembers THAT Ridley Scott historical epic.

Dairwendan